Talking about Neath abbey, I'm obviously pleased to see the reference to the Welsh places of worship forum. You referred to this and the incredible heritage we have with chapels. I think something like one a week opened in the nineteenth century—5,000 or more places of worship. One of the great expressions of the advance of evangelical Christian faith, and it's something we should be proud of. Obviously, most people don't have an attachment to that type of folk Christianity any more, but it was really, really important.

And can I commend, now that I don't serve the area of Neath—my political life has been here in South Wales Central—the landscapes of faith project, run by the diocese of Llandaf I think, which should stand out here, and for their partnership with other organisations such as Coleridge in Wales? I think that shows you the imagination that we really need. It is very, very important that we follow the aim of their project to champion Wales as an internationally important place to discover the heritage of faith and faiths, and we could apply that across other areas of historical and cultural interest.

I think that key here is how we use listed places of worship in order to sustain them. And the most magnificent ones really do need to find a use, and that use maybe could range from a gallery—that's a traditional one—but it may be a restaurant, it may be some community centre; a whole range of things. And we do need to protect those buildings, but we need to use them, and I think that that is key.

I was pleased that you referred to the Historic Environment (Wales) Act 2016, which of course aims to identify and conserve a whole range of important historical sites. Many of these are now being revealed by new mapping techniques and aerial photography, particularly those relating to the early medieval period, the Iron Age, and even the neolithic. We are discovering a remarkable number of sites, and many of them will be of absolutely international significance, potentially, because of the strength of those early cultures in this part of western Europe along the seaboard. And I think it's very, very important that we support people, landowners in particular and local councils, wherever these sites are, and preserve them and then, obviously, interpret them, because some of them will emerge truly as sites of first-class importance. 

Can I just finish by concluding on marketing and tourism? As the document says, it's practically a £1 billion industry in Wales, and I think you're right to talk about the economic potential and the need for us to have a vision of Wales. I'm glad that castles are mentioned, because it is easy for us to see this as the Anglo-Norman sort of heavy hand on Wales, but the other side of interpreting that is that was the military investment required to control that area, and it is quite a remarkable compliment in an odd way.

But if we look at Conwy castle, for instance, it does have, I think, the most coherent claim to be the pinnacle of castle building, and castle building as a fortress ideally suited to its geographical area and for a very—in that case—brutal political purpose. It's important that when people come to Britain to visit castles that they realise that if they want to see how a fortress castle works—and it's nearly in perfect preservation; it's not a ruin, it is as it was built, practically—they need to go to Conwy.

And can I conclude by just saying that I think modern technology is a key area here and that skill is really important? I would like to hear you specifically on anything that you're doing in the digital, cultural projections and resources. The UK Government has a specific digital, cultural project. I'm sure we're doing something similar, but a bit more information on that would be important, because people can see that in North America, Australia, whatever, and when they're planning their trip, they can then know and have a virtual visit to Conwy castle and then come and see it as it exists. But we will work constructively in this very important area to ensure that Wales gets the maximum value for its own citizens, for us all, but also for those who visit us.