1. What discussions has the Counsel General had in relation to administrative justice in Wales? OAQ52642

Last week, I sponsored the workshop here at the Senedd, 'Public law and administrative justice in Wales', organised by the Bangor University law school. The event was well attended and brought together leading academics, practitioners, legislators and policy makers to discuss current challenges and opportunities for administrative justice in Wales.

Counsel General, you'll be aware that the President of the Supreme Court, Lady Justice Hale, her predecessors, many reports from the Law Society and other research institutes have all identified the fact that changes under this Government to legal aid have effectively abolished legal aid for the majority of the population of our society and there is no longer access to justice. They also identify that the people most affected are women, children, the disabled and the poor—and anyone would think that this might even be a deliberate policy of this Tory Government.

In Wales, we can no longer tolerate a system where there is such limited access to justice, and I wonder if you could consider whether the Welsh Government should bring forward a statement examining not only this problem of access to justice, but what might be a Welsh solution to begin to ameliorate the consequences. I'm aware that Welsh Government puts a lot of money into advice networks and so on; maybe there is an opportunity now to bring those together into a common framework to perhaps be the embryo of a new Welsh legal aid system.

May I thank the Member for his comments? I associate myself completely with his remarks about the UK Government's position in relation to legal aid cuts and, indeed, court closures and other retrograde steps. I wholeheartedly agree with him that the effect of that, in terms of people's access to justice, in Wales and across the UK, has been incredibly detrimental and, indeed, an outrage. What some of the discussion at the workshop recently centred on was, I think, the point that his question gets to the heart of, which is the existence of an administrative justice system, if you like, that looks in Wales at how we can do things differently, so that we can ameliorate some of the harsher effects of the cuts to legal aid by making access to administrative justice, at least, easier for individuals. It's difficult, I think, at the moment, to regard that as a system that is entirely coherent. It's been built up over many years and in different ways, and I think part of the complexity of that system is a challenge for individuals seeking redress.

He will obviously know that part of the administrative justice system, the tribunals system, is currently the subject of work, which is in fact about to embark, by the Law Commission to look at how that can be rationalised and streamlined and made much more coherent. Again, much of the legislation that governs the devolved tribunals in Wales was put in place, was passed, before the days of devolution. So, there is a task there where we can look systematically and coherently at that part of our devolved justice system—if I can use that term—and make it, perhaps, easier for individuals seeking redress. One of the other aspects, I think, that bears some reflection from those discussions earlier in the week is the work that is about to embark on a joint basis between Bangor and Cardiff universities to map out, in some of the areas where people need to seek redress—in education and in housing—some of the routes to seek redress, so that we make it easier for the general public to understand how they can go about enforcing their rights.

I was delighted to see the Counsel General at the administrative justice workshop last week, not only for his own speech but staying on afterwards. It was very ably organised, I think, by Sarah Nason from Bangor University.

As there is increasing divergence between our law in Wales and in England, it becomes increasingly important for Members to engage with that. I sought to found, and founded with others, the cross-party legal group to try and improve those connections. In the speech the Counsel General made, he set out, I believe, six principles underlying administrative justice in Wales, and I just wondered whether he considers those to be a description of the system as at the moment, or more his aspiration for how he would like the system to develop in future.

Well, I think the point that I was seeking to make in my remarks to the workshop, really, was that the principle objective should be to get decisions right in the first place, and that decisions made with those principles in mind should lead us to that outcome. But I was also identifying the complexity of the current system, and the expectation, which individuals should have, that each person is able to seek redress in the way that is most convenient for them. And also, as well as that principle of equality of access and equality of access to justice, that we can expect that administrative decisions lead us to a more equal Wales, if I can put it like that, so that decisions taken by tribunals and by commissioners and by ombudsmen within the administrative justice system lead us to that outcome, which is an aspiration of this Government.