I'm not sure I follow his argument. Many of the new schools that have been built are, literally, a few miles away from the schools that they were built to replace. It's not a situation where children suddenly have to travel 10 miles to go to school where previously there was one on their doorstep.

We're proud of the fact that we in Wales have a commitment to building new schools, to refurbishing new schools. What is the point of keeping schools that are too small to be viable or schools that are in buildings that are very difficult, particularly for modern technology?

Yes, I've seen situations where people can be very concerned when a school that has been there for many, many, many years closes, but I've not yet come across anybody who has said, when they see a new school, that they'd like to go back to the old schools. What they see is a school that is a community facility, a school that offers all the best in terms of technology, offers wonderful teaching space, in a way that wasn't available in some of the older schools in Wales.

I don't know what he's trying to say here—whether we should not have new schools or that we should carry on with the same old buildings. For me, new schools mean better education for our pupils.