8. Plaid Cymru Debate: People's Vote

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:17 pm on 3 October 2018.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 5:17, 3 October 2018

Llywydd, I have to admit that I have form on resisting the results of referendums when I feel that the people have made a mistake. I joined Plaid Cymru in 1979 after the devolution referendum was lost. It took us 20 years to overturn the result of that referendum. I don't think there are many people—. [Interruption.] It did take 20 years, I'll give David Rowlands that. It took 20 years, but we can't wait 20 years to look again at the result of this referendum. Wales is about to be dragged over a cliff into a 'no deal' Brexit abyss and the risks faced by the rural communities that I represent in mid and west Wales are well known. Those of us who know that this would be a disaster have an absolute duty to resist that and to put the reality to the people of Wales of what we will actually face, if and when we leave, and what the deal will actually be. 

The original referendum was deeply flawed. People were invited to vote for more control. What we have seen instead is a power grab by a Tory Government dragging powers away from Wales back to Westminster while the Labour Government here stands by wringing their hands. And people were invited to vote for billions of extra pounds for the NHS, among other things. There were all sorts of things we were going to spend this money on—the farmers, we were going to spend it on the health service. Goodness me, it was the magic money tree, really, wasn't it? Instead, as has already been pointed out by Adam Price and Lynne Neagle and others, this Brexit is already costing us millions of pounds a week and we will have billions of pounds in the divorce Bill, and the potential impact on the Welsh economy, long term, is dire. 

Each Welsh voter who supported Brexit will have had their own reasons, and I have a lot of sympathy with what Leanne Wood said about what some of those reasons would be—a resistance to an establishment that people felt was ignoring them. I remember campaigning with Lee Waters in Llanelli and two young men saying to me, 'I can't get into this at all. This is posh English blokes shouting at each other. This doesn't feel as if it's anything to do with me.' That may very well be true, but I am convinced that none of those voters who voted for Brexit voted for drug shortages, unemployment, a hard border in Northern Ireland, visa requirements to visit our nearest neighbours and threats to environmental protection and our human rights. And all of those are real risks of a hard 'no deal' Brexit. 

I want to refer today, Llywydd, to those people who in that referendum could not vote—71,500 young people, approximately, have reached the voting age in Wales since we voted to leave. That is not far short of the national majority in Wales for Brexit. Now, I do not mean to imply for a moment that all young people would have voted to remain, but we do know that young people were much less likely to support Brexit, and it's obvious that the impact of Wales leaving the European Union, especially if we do so without a deal, will have a much more profound effect on the lives of those young people than it will have on the lives of those of us who have already benefited from decades of EU membership, and may now be coming to the end, some of us, of our working lives.

There is evidence of much anger amongst young people about Brexit. I saw this when I was leading a national youth work charity. These young people have a right to be angry. Our generation is taking an ill-informed gamble with their futures, and we owe them the right to have a voice in determining that future, and to take part in a people's vote on the deal that is actually being offered.

I want to refer very briefly to the Government amendment, which invites us to look at the general election as a way of resolving this. Well, as Lynne Neagle has already said, I'm at a loss to see how that would work. There's no need to rehearse the division and chaos that is the Conservative Party's position on Brexit, but I'm afraid that Labour in Westminster is not much better. I follow politics pretty closely, and I have no idea what a Labour Westminster Government would do about Brexit. Would they renegotiate? Would they put on a referendum without the option to remain? Would they place a referendum with a potential option to remain if the deal was rejected? I suspect I don't know because they don't either, and I suspect that that depends on whether you believe Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer or any of the other people who may be speaking. A general election cannot, sadly—and I wish this were not the case—get us out of this mess, as Lynne Neagle has said, and I suspect many other Members on the Labour benches know this. 

We need a people's vote once the deal is known, and every single one of us in this Chamber and beyond who believe that the future for Wales is as a member of the European family need to be campaigning now for that people's vote, so that people can vote on what's really on offer and not on the pie in the sky that they were fed in 2016.