Well, should I be surprised that the department that has the responsibility for universal credit has commissioned a survey to say it's fine? I would have questions as to the objectivity—I don't know more about it—of such a survey. But let me say to him that the real effect of universal credit is this: Community Housing Cymru recently reported that housing association tenants on universal credit in Wales are already in over £1 million-worth of debt in terms of rent arrears. According to their survey, a sample of 29 housing associations in Wales—that survey was conducted with 3,475 people living in housing association homes in Wales, and that shows that each person is, on average, £420 worse off because of rent arrears. That's the reality of the situation when it comes to universal credit, and that's why it has to be halted and reversed.