Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:02 pm on 10 October 2018.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very grateful to all Members who've taken part in this debate. I have a very short length of time to respond. I'm very grateful to Mark Isherwood, particularly for his points about the gap between policy and reality, and that is why I believe that we do need to move to legislate: because disabled people have to have recourse if their rights are not being met. Now, they do have an element of recourse, of course, through the equalities Act, but that is legislation that's not in control of this place, and I'm grateful also for Mark's support for the principle of further legislation.
I was particularly struck by Michelle Brown's comments about other people's attitudes and how they get in the way. It can happen to any of us; we can have perceptions about what people are not able to do rather than thinking about all the things that they are able to do. I was particularly struck by the point about employers potentially benefiting from the determination, skills and courage of many disabled people who simply to get through their everyday lives face enormous struggles that many of us do not. And, again, I'm grateful to her for her support.
I fully accept what the leader of the house has said about some of the progress that has been made here in Wales. Disabled people's organisations would say exactly the same thing, of course, and I welcome the action that has already been taken. I think, in many ways, disabled people would say that they are closer to having their rights realised here in Wales than they might be in other parts of the UK. However, that said, I still do believe that, particularly when it comes to disabled people's access to public services here in Wales, we need legislation that disabled people can use if they feel that their rights are not being met, because so much of the strong national policy that the leader of the house talks about here is not, in fact, delivered on the ground, and that may be for a number of reasons—it may be to do with resources, it may be do with lack of awareness.
I'm very grateful also to the leader of the house for suggesting that we meet to discuss how to take this forward, and I fully concur with what she has to say about the human rights landscape after Brexit: we simply do not know what that might look like. I fear that in terms of UK legislation we might see provisions weakened. That, of course, would be an argument for us to take stronger action here in Wales. So, I look forward to meeting with the leader of the house to discuss this, and I very much hope that we will move to incorporate them.