Can I say, Presiding Officer, I took the time to sit with the call handlers at Llandudno Junction to watch how they operate and the service that they deliver? And can I say, I was hugely impressed by the dedication of those staff and their commitment to getting it right? So, I certainly, when I was there, didn't witness any silences at the ends of lines, and I'm surprised that the Member feels this way about many, I suspect, of her constituents who work in that office.

With regard to the issue of student debt, let's be absolutely clear what students from the poorest households in Wales get: they get a non-repayable grant in excess of £9,000 per year to study, and let's be absolutely clear, Janet Finch-Saunders, those same students, if they lived across the border in England, they would receive nothing. Not a single penny.

With regard to financial inclusion, the Member does make serious points, and she will be aware that, as we develop our new curriculum, issues around financial education and financial inclusion are very important, and indeed, again, I have taken the time to look to see how this is being actually delivered in our schools, and saw a fantastic lesson delivered at Olchfa secondary school in Swansea that was at the very heart of, yes, teaching maths, but also teaching students about tax, how they could work out their tax bills, and, crucially, what their tax was used for—and in this case, it's supporting poor students.