3. Statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services: A Healthier Wales: Update on the Transformation Fund

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:03 pm on 23 October 2018.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 3:03, 23 October 2018

Thank you for your comments and questions. Of course, I agree with you that change does take courage, but when we think about the questions that you've asked, I'm happy to reiterate the comments to Helen Mary Jones that I made to Angela Burns as well: I answered that the £30 million for regional partnership boards is indeed new money.

I should also welcome Helen Mary Jones to her new role in this Assembly term as spokesperson for Plaid Cymru. I'm sure we'll have lots of opportunities to talk at length in this Chamber and outside.

Just to deal with your point about the meeting notes, it's partly process, and I think it's also partly about wanting to have openness, but I would not want to stifle the robustness of challenge within that meeting. I'm more than happy to come to this place and answer questions, and I don't find that a troubling thing to do; I'm more than happy to do so. But, I want to think about a way in which we can not stifle debate and challenge within that meeting, but at the same time make sure that Members are aware that that is genuinely taking place.

On the broader point about time frame and evaluation that you asked about at several points, as I said to Angela Burns, there'll be a time frame and evaluation for each bid that goes into the fund. It's part of what'll be tested before any project for the transformation fund is approved, and I won't set an artificial time frame for that evaluation to take place. Not only will I expect there to be an evaluation framework within there, but of course that will inform any choice made about successful or unsuccessful. And I would expect to make that available, or information from that evaluation available, when choices are then made about whether to continue and to promote that as a project to be mainstreamed, or indeed if the choice is not to continue with that.

Because all of us in this room are aware, in our variety of roles, and will get lobbied constantly about different projects that are working where people are saying, 'This is a great project. You must support it.' There is often, even in an unsuccessful project, much that is of value and learning that people want to continue with, but we have to make a choice about what not to do that stops us from doing things that are potentially of greater value to the whole system. So, yes, I want to find a way to make sure that evaluation information is available to help support those decisions.

On your broader points about where we are, look: I recognise that change in the national health service is difficult, and, yes, there has been a Labour Minister in this position over the last 18 years, including of course during the One Wales Government, so we've all seen the challenges and difficulties over time of delivering health and care in Wales—in times in the first half of devolution when there was more money, and in the second half of devolution when coping with austerity. What is different now is we don't have money to avoid a process of change. We have rising demand that we could anticipate 20 years ago, but that demand is now at a point where it could overtop our system, so there is real responsibility on all of us in a leadership position to actually enable change to happen.

That doesn't mean we all need to agree. You can have unity of purpose without unanimity on every single question and choice to make. But I do think that each of us needs to recognise that there are voices in all parties against change. As I've said before in this place, I recognise there are people in my party who do not want to see change happen when it is difficult at a local level, and there's no point pretending otherwise. But it's my job in this position to try to make sure that our system has the leadership it requires, and has the opportunities to enable and support it to make choices to genuinely change the way in which we deliver health and social care. I am determined to do that and I look forward to a grown-up and mature response from every party in this Chamber to allow us to do that. That does not mean that there won't be challenge, but it took courage and change from people in all parties to create the Parliament here in the first place and we now need to demonstrate that same courage, leadership and maturity in delivering and driving genuine change throughout health and social care here in Wales.