1. What discussions has the Counsel General had with the UK Government on ensuring that the rights of EU citizens in Wales are protected in the event of the UK leaving the European Union? OAQ52829

The Welsh Government continues to press the UK Government to guarantee that EU nationals in the UK won't lose rights, even in a 'no deal' Brexit. Creating a hostile environment in which EU nationals choose to leave would be deeply harmful to our economy, our public services and our international reputation.

I'm grateful to you for your answer, Counsel General. You will be aware of how grave the concern continues to be of EU citizens and their families in Wales and across the region. I've, particularly, had concerns raised with me by citizens based in universities in the region that I represent. Have you received a formal response from the Westminster Government to your 'Brexit and Fair Movement of People' paper? And what further reassurances can you give to EU citizens and their families that Welsh Government will continue to prioritise pressing the UK Government on this matter? It is really very distressing to families to feel that they're not welcome in their homes any more, and I'm sure that you would agree with me that this is completely unacceptable. 

Can I just echo the point that the Member has made in relation to that? It is profoundly unsatisfactory that we are having to have these kinds of conversations and, difficult though it is for us, it's immeasurably more difficult for those individual citizens whose lives are in limbo, in some senses, because of a lack of long-term clarity around some of these areas.

The Government did welcome the phase 1 agreement on citizens' rights in the draft withdrawal agreement, and the Member will be aware that in June of this year, the UK Government published the EU settlement statement of intent, and she's mentioned people working in the higher education sector—in October, the Home Office agreed to extend its private beta-testing phase of that settlement scheme to Wales, to include higher education institutions, the social care sector and the NHS.

There's been an ongoing dialogue between the Welsh Government and the UK Government in relation to both the settlement scheme in general—. We have concerns, which we've expressed forcibly, in relation to the prospect of several thousands, perhaps, not being able to take advantage of that scheme because of, perhaps, vulnerability or because they may be hard-to-reach groups, and the inadequacy of the communications around that. But in particular, in relation to the pilot scheme, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance has made specific representations to the UK Government. We are unhappy that that scheme is open only to individuals and not to their families. We think that is disrespectful and it's also undermining of family life and, indeed, perhaps, even the intention of the scheme itself. We're also concerned about the lack of a statutory appeals mechanism in that, and, I dare say, there are people holding off engaging with that scheme until they can have a greater certainty that their families will be encompassed within it and that they'll be able to access an appeals process.

So, there are many points of concern that we continue to press with the UK Government in relation to this, and she'll be aware, of course, that this relates, if I may put it like this, to the immediate plans. We still have a lack of clarity about the long-term plans and we know very clearly in Wales that we need migration into Wales to support our public services and our economy. 

I want to raise the position of European citizens living in Britain, married to a British citizen, with British children, who are afraid that they will have to leave the country, leaving behind their spouse and their children. It's not an academic question, it's not one based on possibility—it's one from one of my constituents who fears such an outcome. What discussion has the Counsel General had with the Westminster Government regarding this potential, very serious problem for the individual concerned?

I thank Mike Hedges for that supplementary question, and the issue that he raises is an issue that I'm sure many, if not all of us, have had raised with us in our surgeries, as have our Member of Parliament counterparts. It just goes to show how deep into all communities in Wales this issue reaches.

Under the settlement scheme, the constituent who you've described their circumstances—. EU citizens and their family members who, by the end of 2020, have been continuously living in the UK for five years will be required to apply for settled status. People who arrive by then but won't have been here for five years can apply for pre-settled status, which will then enable them to meet that five-year threshold. And if they have close family members who are living overseas at that point, they will be able to join EU citizens after that date where the relationship existed on that date.

I thank the Counsel General for his very comprehensive response to Helen Mary Jones and I agreed with every word of it. It's lamentable that the United Kingdom Government has not taken the moral high ground in this respect. It would have been quite easy for the UK Government, unilaterally, to guarantee the rights of EU citizens lawfully living and working in the United Kingdom, regardless of the EU Commission's view. They, clearly, want to treat people as bargaining chips in the negotiating process, which I think is quite wrong. UKIP fought the recent general elections, and indeed the Assembly election, on a basis of giving such a guarantee to EU citizens living and working in Wales, and my party will give every possible support to the Counsel General and the Welsh Government in its further pressure on the UK Government to do the decent thing.

Well, his party may have campaigned on that basis in the last two elections, but it certainly didn't campaign on the basis of an open and inclusive society during the Brexit referendum itself. 

Stick to the question.

And a fair amount of the anxiety caused and suffered by people living in the UK and overseas is as a consequence of the sorts of representations and arguments being made by his party during that referendum.

Counsel General, the questions have been focused very much upon EU citizens. On Monday, members of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee actually went to the Norwegian embassy, and we were reminded that it's also European Economic Area citizens that we need to reflect upon. So, can I ask you that, when you have the discussions with your colleagues in Westminster, it's actually EU and EEA citizens you need to focus on, to ensure they both get treated equally?

Well, the Member makes a very important point. It's absolutely vital that we make sure that EEA citizens have the same protection as EU citizens will have under the deal that we understand. We've paid careful attention to the successive drafts of the withdrawal agreement, and we'll continue to make representations in support of that.