Diolch. Can I thank David Melding for his comments this afternoon, for his contribution to the debate, and for his contribution during the committee? I can say that you will be missed in the committee when we discuss housing.

He raises that quality assurance is important. People need to be assured that, if they are buying something, the quality that they've got is such that they are not paying money out like people have done for other things that they've had that were meant to help their homes and didn't.

Older properties are lived in by people who are on low incomes and are low-income house owners. That's by definition. Your five-bedroomed detached houses tend not to be lived in by low-income householders; it’s the two/three-bedroomed terraced houses that are lived in by low-income owner-occupiers, and it’s important that these properties are retrofitted. This is probably the biggest group of people who could benefit in terms of not just fuel poverty, but actually benefit from retrofitting.

Llyr Gruffydd—again, the importance of having a method of reducing carbon, and housing has to be part of it. Scale and pace need increasing—I think that’s something we’ve said about an awful lot of things from our reports from time to time, but it's, I think, if you can sum up an awful lot of things here, moving in the right direction but not quickly enough. I think that's probably—. I don’t think anybody criticised the direction in which the Welsh Government is going. Nobody criticised the fact that the Welsh Government is moving to reduce fuel poverty. They are moving to reduce carbon. I think the concern is, from the committee—and any of the members of the committee can tell me if I’m wrong—it’s not happening fast enough.

New jobs—we’ve talked a lot about the fact, and we’ve had Lee Waters, who is not in here, tell us regularly about the effects of automation, but other jobs will be created. This retrofitting is unlikely to be automated, certainly in the short term. So, it’s really important that we skill people up to do this.

Gareth Bennett came on and talked about that we need skills. We need the colleges to train people, but people will not undertake training, colleges will not undertake courses, unless they know there’s a market and there is an assurance of continuity, that they know—the people going on a training course—that there's going to be 10, 15 years' worth of work to retrofit, rather than in three years’ time there will be a change of policy, a change in direction and their skill will be outdated.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her response. I very much welcome many of the comments she said. And there are many different ways of reducing emissions. I do not see—and perhaps the Cabinet Secretary can explain to me—why tenure affects the method of retrofitting. I can understand how the type of property affects it, but I can't understand how a house being privately rented, owner occupied, or owned by a housing association would actually affect the type of retrofitting you needed. Perhaps the Cabinet—I'm quite happy to receive an intervention for that to be explained to me.

Decarbonisation is a priority—and the Cabinet Secretary highlighted reductions. We're going to have milestones and targets to be set; I think that most Members in here would like to know when. Consider more stringent standards—yes, that's the direction we want to move in. Review of Part L—I think that's something that needs to be changed. We all welcome Nest and Arbed 3, and I'm sure that whoever stands here in about five or six years' time will welcome Nest and Arbed 4. But, at some stage, we need to be making progress to such an extent that we don't need Nest and Arbed 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10.

Fuel poverty is a huge problem. I'll finish on this—a story of one of my constituents. She goes to bed at 7 o'clock at night with her daughter. Why? That's the only way they can keep warm. They live in a house that is privately rented, probably because they spend more on keeping cold than most people in here spend on their houses keeping them warm. And I think that that is the problem. We have this level of fuel poverty, and it's the poorest people who are suffering, not just because of the cost of fuel, but because of the type of property they live in—the single glaze with gaps that means that they're doing very well at heating the world, but not such a good job of heating their own houses. Really, fuel poverty has got to be a top priority. I know the Welsh Government wants to reduce it, but we need to be really committed to eliminating it.