Item 6 is a debate on the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee report, 'Hitting the Right Note: Inquiry into funding for and access to music education'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion.

Motion NDM6833 Bethan Sayed

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, 'Hitting the Right Note—Inquiry into funding for and access to music education’, which was laid in the Table Office on 14 June 2018.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much. I’m very pleased to open this debate on the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee’s report, 'Hitting the Right Note', on funding for and access to music education. No matter what our backgrounds, our professions or our allegiances, I’m sure that, at some point, we've all drawn great satisfaction and pride from our country’s status as the land of song. The history of Wales is a history steeped in music. But what if that status was about to change?

In an interview with the BBC in December 2016, Dr Owain Arwel Hughes, founder of the Welsh Proms, and a former conductor at the National Youth Orchestra of Wales, explained that cuts to school music services, and a consequent lack of tuition opportunities, were causing what he described as a crisis in Welsh music education. Dr Hughes's concerns were also reflected in the committee's public poll. In the summer of 2016, we asked the public to vote on what our next inquiry should be. Out of the 11 options, funding for and access to music education came top.

The benefits of music education are not only for Wales's culture and heritage. Music education has so many positive impacts on a child’s development. Again and again, we were told by those giving evidence that, by being taught music in their schools, in their formative years, they learned the value of such things as prolonged commitment, patience, and hard work—and discipline. The brass section of many an orchestra across Wales will understand why they need discipline—I don't need to tell them here today. These are qualities that, once acquired, could be used in any number of fields and disciplines.

As a musician myself, who was brought through the music service system, I can testify to the truth of these statements. Through music education, I was afforded amazing opportunities and experiences that enriched my education. They're experiences that I cherish to this day.

Such things as travelling abroad as part of a team and playing some of the world’s most renowned orchestral music, had a very tangible, positive impact on me, in ways that I am still benefiting from today. And I can't listen to Mahler 1 without remembering fond memories of my last national youth orchestra course. As such, I am passionate about ensuring that every child in Wales has the opportunity to seize what was such a valuable part of my own education. The time has come to not paper over the cracks, but to come up with radical solutions in the face of continuous and prolonged cuts to these services, with Wrexham being the latest in a long line of cuts, of local-authority-led cuts in this area.

As I mentioned earlier, this inquiry arose out of a public poll, through which we asked the Welsh public what our next inquiry should be. This was the first time an Assembly committee handed such a decision directly to the people of Wales. I would like to thank all those who took part in what, for us as a committee, was a very worthwhile exercise, so worthwhile, in fact, that we decided to do it again over the summer on a different topic altogether.

There is no doubt in my mind that music services in Wales are facing, or will be facing, a crisis if we don't act now. Unless urgent action is taken, we're looking at further degradation of these vital services. Only recently, in a paper to the Equalities, Local Government and Communities Committee, the Welsh Local Government Association, summarising the potential impact of the Welsh Government’s draft budget, stated that

'smaller services like music will cease'.

Of course, that is only if they have not ceased already.

Two of the main themes presented throughout the inquiry centred on equality of access and  equality of provision. We were consistently told that the level of services available was heavily dependent on the area in which a pupil lives, with local authorities offering vastly different levels of service. In some areas, the cost of tuition is being passed entirely onto parents, resulting in those pupils from poorer backgrounds being afforded far fewer opportunities than those whose parents can afford it. This situation is entirely unacceptable.

Sufficient funding for these services is clearly a major issue. However, we have heard from the sector that it suffered from a lack of strategic direction—so it's not all about the money—and that this has also contributed to the variable nature of the services on offer. We have, as a result, called on the Government to provide this strategic direction.

So, the central recommendation of our report is that the Welsh Government transfer responsibility for the delivery of music services to an arm's-length national body. What that could look like is, of course, to be debated. While the committee is sympathetic to the principle of local decision making, and that would still need to factor in any of this, the current system, put simply, just does not work. Music services, being non-statutory, are crumbling under the pressure of reduced local authority budgets.

I'm very pleased to see that the Cabinet Secretary has accepted this recommendation in principle, pending the outcome of a feasibility study. However—and there is a 'however'—giving the final decision on the outcome of this exercise to local authorities, which already have a vested interest in this—as stated in the Cabinet Secretary’s response to us as a committee—is, in my view, not something that we would desire. I believe that it's time for the Government to take hold of this situation centrally to determine the best way forward and to implement it as quickly as possible.

The committee considered other options. We discussed the ring-fencing of funding for music at length, I would say, within local authority budgets, or making the delivery of services a statutory obligation. We came to the conclusion that we wanted to offer different ideas for a solution that would be long-standing for the future. The funding issues are clearly a major concern. Unless funding is addressed, issues such as the variable nature of provision are likely to remain. This is why we have called on the Government to provide the proposed national body with the necessary funding to maintain equality of access and provision on an all-Wales level. Whatever the outcome of the Cabinet Secretary’s feasibility study, we expect any new system to be funded sufficiently and to have dedicated core funding from the Welsh Government.

Another central recommendation of our report is that the Welsh Government take strategic ownership of music services by consulting stakeholders in order to create a national action plan for music.

The absence of such direction has led to inconsistency and complication. Direction is now needed urgently to avoid the further deterioration of the services on offer. This is not to say that the services themselves are the only things affected by the lack of an overarching strategy. The terms and conditions of staff within the sector vary greatly between authorities. This must also be addressed. Consistency in relation to staff terms and conditions would allow for a more collaborative approach to provision, enabling local authorities to co-ordinate services and share resources. Such a strategy could also be used to introduce performance measures and targets in order to ensure equitable standards across Wales. As such, while I am disappointed that this recommendation has been rejected, seemingly, I think, on the basis that our proposed plan did not have the word 'education' in the title, I am pleased that the thrust of the recommendation is being considered within the Cabinet Secretary’s feasibility study. 

However, the Cabinet Secretary put her name to the foreword of the music services' one-year-on report, so, I don't understand why, in her rejection of recommendation 2, the Cabinet Secretary has stated that she does not believe that she should take strategic responsibility for music services, as they fall outside of her portfolio. And, in any case, I think a lot of examples of Ministers taking a strategic lead on things that aren't entirely in their portfolio have already happened within Welsh Government. I know that she herself has made announcements with regard to the endowment and extra money for instruments. So, I think she's led by example in that regard.

It's clear in the report that we are talking about a plan for music education. So, I think the Cabinet Secretary's rejection of recommendations 2, 6, 8 and 12, which all relate to our proposed national action plan for music, is a tiny, tiny bit pernickety. I suggest that the recommendations have been taken out of context, but I'll be glad to hear what the Cabinet Secretary's analysis is, and I hope we can come to a progressive conclusion.

We have, of course, welcomed the Cabinet Secretary's announcement that each council is to receive an additional £10,000 for the purchasing of musical instruments. A lack of musical instruments was identified during our inquiry, as one issue among many larger issues. But I think each local authority has unique problems and we heard from local music services that we need to take into account current supply, pupil population and the level of deprivation. What Merthyr can do with £10,000 is significantly different to what Cardiff can do with that money.

We welcome the creation of Anthem, Music Fund Wales—a national endowment for music introduced by the Cabinet Secretary, backed by the £1 million Welsh Government investment. This is clearly a step in the right direction, and one that I hope will provide an effective part of a much needed solution to the current crisis, and I'm sure fellow committee members, like myself, will be taking a keen interest in this. 

Since the publication of our report, I'm pleased the Cabinet Secretary has opened a dialogue with me in order to discuss a way forward. And these conversations have been constructive in tone and I'd be encouraged to hear what the Cabinet Secretary has to say here today in relation to that. I do thank many stakeholders who have given the ideas in relation to how we can raise those concerns with the Cabinet Secretary.

I've also written to her officials directly, saying how I would like to see the £2 million of Welsh Government funding announced by the Government in the budget agreement with Plaid Cymru spent. I will not go into detail about that here today, but I would hope that the Cabinet Secretary, either today, or at some point in the near future, could give us some ideas as to her forward working proposals. 

To conclude, if we, as a nation, value our rich musical heritage and would like the benefits of this most valued part of Welsh life to extend long into the future, we must act now to address this crisis.

The value of music to Wales and to those living and learning within our country has long been a powerful asset, one that brings great pride, joy and fulfilment to us and so it must be continued. It's worth a huge amount to our creative industries sector, and I think it must be acknowledged that it does not only affect just one sector of society, it transcends our lives here in Wales and it permeates through every aspect of our lives, whether it is through how we operate now as politicians to how we can enjoy time outside of this place in our local theatres, in our local orchestral opportunities.

I look forward to hearing what you all have to say here today and to the Cabinet Secretary's response. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Can I just take a brief moment to thank everybody on the committee, including my fellow committee members, as were, and members of the clerking team? I really enjoyed my time on CWLC, and, even though I'm delighted to be speaking on education now, I'm going to remember those two and a half years, not just with fondness but for the fact that I learned so much there that's going to be valuable in my new portfolio, and I'll come to that as I make my contribution today. 

This inquiry happened because the people of Wales asked us to do it, and I know it was of particular interest to the Chair, but I didn't realise there was such an appetite for shedding light on what turned out to be a Wales-wide situation until we made this appeal to the Welsh public. And I still think this very innovative way of deciding at least on part of what the committee's work was is very valuable and genuinely worth other policy committees considering. Just with this particular inquiry, the process helped us identify a need for some expert advice, for example, which perhaps you wouldn't have been aware of previously, and that helped us understand that we needed to take another round of evidence, which we did, after we found that matters of importance arose from the original round of evidence gathering. So, very much a moving feast, but a new way of doing things that I think left us all as committee members feeling properly informed before we signed off the recommendations of the report.

I'm just going to focus on a few of the recommendations, beginning with the first two. Really, someone has got to take responsibility for the existence and the success of music services, and we think that it should be the Welsh Government, not least as a result of statutory well-being goals that now affect government as well as other public services. We were interested in a range of delivery models, which I'll come back to, but what we were clear on is that this cannot be left to cash-strapped councils trying to rescue these services themselves—the pressure on funding non-statutory activities in all councils is acute these days—and nor can it depend on the interest of key officials within councils, or indeed within school leadership, for these services to exist at all, it seems to me. It's just not a safe way of securing those services. We were also—I think you mentioned it, Bethan—pretty disappointed that no really significant headway had been made on pretty useful recommendations made by the Government's own task and finish group on music services a couple of years ago.

Now, having said that, I firmly believe that the design of the delivery of music services is a co-productive activity. I don't think that should be down to Welsh Government. It's not for civil servants, and that's actually why I was very happy to support recommendation 1, because I think the Government's role is to set out strategic objectives for music services that, in my view, go beyond the core purpose of music services, which is growing our next generation of musicians. I think by looking at music participation as a tool in achieving a whole range of well-being and education objectives, even beyond the creative learning plan, if needs be—a tool in tackling poverty, for example. We've got the Kay Andrews report. I'm hoping there'll be some work done on that pretty soon to see how delivery's looking against that. But these are all ways of building a need for music services.

So it's not just the core purpose. Music services can do so much more, and other people need to accept that there's a responsibility for ensuring that we maintain those services beyond the core purpose. It means more than one income stream, for a start, and I think there may be some purists out there who think maybe this is a slightly transactional way of looking at music services, but the way I'm looking at it is building on the committee's underlying conclusions that things will fail if we carry on as we are. So, if other policy sectors can start looking at how music can be of value to them—and you did mention some examples, I think, Bethan—then I think its existence becomes more of a political priority. The more people that have a vested interest in it, the better.

I think a national body, albeit one that is very regional and local facing, is the best way to ensure that provision is equitable, that standards are maintained, that all parts of Wales are covered, and of course standards of pay for music service providers. I think a national body's got to be the best place for that, as well as to co-ordinate these alternative income streams. So, if that means beefing up the role of the National Youth Arts Wales, or something separate, I really don't mind, but I think we do need that.

Then just briefly I'll come back to the question of recommendation 4. One size fits all—we don't need it, it's unwelcome. We had fantastic evidence from, I think it was, a co-operative group in Denbighshire. Why should we reinvent the wheel when the music providers themselves are quite capable of designing services that work well?

Just finally I want to say, as an untalented person myself, I rely on others to make music to make me happy, but then so do the lonely, the isolated, those with additional learning needs, communication problems, dementia, those with mental health problems—they rely on music in some cases to help them participate in life, and all of us need it to participate in our national culture. Thank you.

This report has not been hurried. The first evidence session was held in January 2017 and for the time that I was on the committee, those of us who served—and it's significant, when you look at the report, the number of different people who've gone through this particular process; it's involved coming up to a fifth of all Assembly Members. But I think we took our time deliberately, because it was easy to rush to a quick, glib answer to what is a very difficult issue in this age of austerity. I think there was universal agreement that the provision of musical services in schools was both a public good and a cultural right. But with declining resources for local authorities and a duty to provide statutory services, there was no easy way out. And as tempting as it would have been to respond to Owain Arwel Hughes's call of a crisis by simply issuing a report saying this was important and councils should spend more on it, that would be unfair to our colleagues in local government, who are struggling with difficult decisions every week.

So, we did take our time and we set up an expert panel to scrutinise our initial thoughts and work with us, alongside us, to test our emerging ideas, to see if they passed muster. So, I think it's to the committee's credit that it has taken time, though, I have no doubt, it's to the slight exasperation of the stakeholders that it's taken this long to come up with a report.

I must say, I thought the Cabinet Secretary's response was a very encouraging one. I'm not sure if I've misread it, having listened to the characterisation of the Chair of the committee, which I thought was a little churlish. I thought that the response was very constructive and a genuine attempt to try and craft a solution that would last to what is, without doubt, a difficult set of circumstances.

I was very sad to hear recently that the Carmarthenshire Youth Orchestra has been suspended, and I think this a source of pain to all those who have gone through the services, as indeed the committee Chair herself had and as Jeremy Miles, who served on the committee alongside me, had too. There's a real, genuine sense of commitment, I think, of committee members to preserve what is put there.

I was reflecting, reading on the impact of the changing world of work, and of automation and digitisation and the skills that we are teaching to young people, to give them the ability to do the jobs that have not yet been created. And, actually, it's not the importance of coding or programming that is the most important thing. The most important thing is creativity, it's team work, it's empathy, it's human skills. All exactly the sort of things that you get from a musical education. And I was listening on the radio this week to somebody talking about the experience they were given, showing an interest in music, but not an aptitude. By simply showing an interest they were showered with attention and encouragement—the sort of cultural experience that we want to give young people.

So, this agenda is central of the future skills agenda. It's not an add-on, 'Wouldn't it be nice if we had more money to fund local authority services?' Which is why I think the call of the committee to put this at arm's length from local authorities, to take a national lead—. Because we looked at the task and finish group that had been set up under Huw Lewis and we tracked its progress, and little had happened to it. We had very unimpressive evidence from the WLGA. And I sympathise with the dilemma they're under, but they have failed. They have failed in the task of providing leadership on this and I understand why, but that's not good enough. So, I think it's right that the Welsh Government steps in to say this should be done on an all-Wales basis.

I applaud the new models that have been put forward through the endowment from National Youth Arts Wales. I worry for them, having run a charity and tried to get funding from trusts and foundations. It's damn hard. It really is difficult, and London trusts and foundations are not quick to come to the aid of cultural services outside of the metropolis. So, I think it's right that we've set them up, but we mustn't leave them to languish—we must follow it through with support, both in cash terms, but also in aid. I also applaud the musical instrument amnesty that I was very proud to give my daughter's guitar to. I even strummed a little bit before I handed it over.

So, I think the interventions that the Government are already doing are right and are welcome. The direction of travel the committee sets out in the report, I think, is the right one. The importance of this agenda is essential, both in terms of cultural rights, but also in terms of future skills. And I, along with others, will be watching with interest as the Government develops what I thought was an encouraging response. But, inevitably, it's the follow-through that matters. Diolch.

It's wonderful for me to be able to take part in this important debate. As Lee Waters mentioned, around a fifth of this Senedd have been part of this committee as we’ve been discussing this very important subject, and, to be fair, the issue of music in our schools is a fundamental one. That’s what the public in Wales have been telling us, and that’s why we discussed this issue in the first instance, because the people of Wales wanted us to discuss it. I pay tribute to the infectious enthusiasm of the Chair, and her natural musical ability as well, but also her ability to drive this agenda forward. We as a nation are meant to be in love with music—it's the land of song, after all, as Bethan said—but there is a shocking crisis, as Owain Arwel Hughes told us in committee. Owain Arwel Hughes, the founder of the Welsh Proms, famous worldwide, and when he says that there’s a crisis then people do have to sit up and listen.

We had detailed evidence over weeks and months and, yes, we did discuss what was the best way forward. I still remember the debates that we had: were we going to continue with the situation as it was, with funding being scarce and different priorities from different local authorities, and so on, or were we going to be brave and say that we needed an arm’s-length national body that could set priorities? Ultimately, that’s the major recommendation. That’s recommendation No. 1: that we need to develop a national body, an arm’s-length body, because this agenda is more than just teaching music in schools. As Lee Waters mentioned, and Bethan too, it’s part of our natural development as people, as children. We develop discipline, we develop the ability to be part of a team, we develop the ability to work hard sometimes to be able to excel, and to practise time and time again in order to reach the top.

I was only an organist in a chapel, and those alternative skills do allow you to develop so that you don’t have one narrow way of thinking in this world of ours. That’s what a number of our witnesses said. I’m so old now, when I was at school we had music lessons regardless. Everyone had them. You turned up, naturally, for a lesson; music was on the agenda. We enjoyed them and that, of course, developed one’s interest at the time, and there were plenty of opportunities in school to have lessons on the violin—although I wasn’t successful in those. Everyone had the opportunity then. It was a different time. I’m talking about a long time ago.

There is excellent work being done in the voluntary sector. We should talk about this, especially the Urdd Eisteddfod, and the National Eisteddfod itself, but the Urdd as an organisation is working miracles of course, with thousands of children learning all kinds of instruments and also signing in the different choirs and so on, and developing as singers. People like Bryn Terfel always talk about the fact that they excelled partly because of the kind of discipline and opportunities that they received through different eisteddfodau, the Urdd and the National Eisteddfod. We have to develop those natural platforms that we have as a nation because it’s an issue of strength.

When we talk about these issues we forget about the excellent work that’s being done on the ground from the different Urdd organisations and the Urdd nationally, developing the future of our people. Because there is excellent and inspiring activity going on on the ground. Yes, with teachers, inspiring teachers, especially with our orchestras, but to develop that interest in the first instance, an interest in music that is going to help you to develop as a person, so—

Will the Member take an intervention?

Of course.

I agree totally with the things you’ve said, and you’ve mentioned the Urdd and national organisations, and I’d also say there’s local musical organisations such as Gwent Music in my area, partially funded by local authorities, and other organisations like that across Wales that are doing a fantastic amount to really promote music outside of schools.

I agree 100 per cent, but, as Owain Arwel Hughes said, we are facing a crisis because information from the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama states that only 13 per cent of pupils from Wales do apply for a place in our Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama—only 13 per cent. There is a crisis and we do need to get to grips with it. Thank you very much. 

As a member of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, I would like to start by praising the efforts of our Chair, Bethan, and fellow committee members and the clerks for their industrious and important work in producing this report. I'm often asked why do I prioritise so highly the issue of music education, and while I'm not alone, during September 2016, before I served on the committee, the public, as you know, was asked what the committee's priorities should be, and, of course, it topped the poll. That's because the public understands the worth of music education in our schools to our young people—not just for those young people, but for us a country, for us a nation, and for us as a culture.

Like the Chair of our committee, I'm a musician and I thank my colleagues in the corridor at Tŷ Hywel, including Lee Waters and Jack Sargeant, who have been known to comment on my playing, and as a lifelong learner I am still a music student and I promise to reach that right note for them, but more so for my constituents. [Laughter.] And if it matters so much to me personally as an Assembly Member to learn and perfect and play a musical instrument, I cannot tell you how critical it is to me to know that no child in Wales is denied the opportunity to pick up an instrument and have the chance to learn to play it, not based on an ability to pay, but based on an ability to play. 

This is not just about learning an instrument. This is about equality of opportunity for all of our students across Wales, and our identity internationally that we must continue to be, in the words of the report that was commissioned from my office by Professor Carr, 'the land of song'. It cannot be in name only. We have to have that infrastructure underpinning the services that we need in order to deliver for all of our pupils. So, I look forward very much to hearing how the Chair and the Cabinet Secretary are going to work through these recommendations, and I'm particularly gratified that recommendation 13 has been accepted in principle by the Welsh Government, which ensures and seeks to ensure that music services continue to exist, to ensure pupils from all walks of life can potentially reach the level of excellence required for a place in the national ensembles. And as we've already heard, that is increasingly not the case.

It is right that all of our pupils, regardless of income, should have the same ability and opportunity to access the right to learn a musical instrument—equality of opportunity for all of our students. We approach a very critical time for music education performance in Wales. We know that we have had too many years of austerity, and it is right now for us to assess and recognise the real impact of the loss of music support services across Wales, that we recognise the inequalities that exist, and that as politicians we come together to provide those solutions. The safeguarding and provision of music education and the music support services are so critical—they provide the beginning, elementary, intermediate, and more advanced ensembles, which deliver those opportunities for those who can't pay—and has to become a national mission that Members of all of our parties, and those of none, can unite behind. I think Bethan, as a Plaid Cymru politician, myself as a Labour politician, and the Cabinet Secretary as a Liberal Democrat, show how we seek agreement across that political divide. I'd also, too, like to thank the contributions from others within the committee.   

But I think the theme today is that it is time to act now for Wales and now for our pupils. This is clearly evidenced in recommendation 1, which calls on the Welsh Government to transfer responsibility for the delivery of the service to an arm's-length national body. Now, there's still a debate around this, and I know that whatever the mechanism, it is heartening that the Welsh Government have accepted this recommendation in principle to fund music support services. I look forward to the Welsh Government reporting back to the committee on the progress of the feasibility exercise, but I wish to score and underscore the fact that it is now that music support services are crumbling as non-statutory services. If they are to remain non-statutory, then we have a responsibility to fund music support services across Wales, whatever that mechanism, and that has to be taken at pace. Thank you.   

I now call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Kirsty Williams. 

Thank you very much, acting Presiding Officer. Before I reply to the points that have been made in the debate and outline the Government's work in this area, I just want to reassure Members across the Chamber that I rarely visit a school where I am not greeted by the musical talents of the pupils in that school—choirs, samba bands, steel bands, violin quartets and a myriad of solo performers. I sometimes joke, if only the Programme for International Student Assessment measured musical talents as well as maths, science, English and reading, then I would sleep easier each time PISA came around.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

What I am very pleased to say, though, is that when the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development have looked at our Creative Learning through the Arts programme, they have described it as 'world-leading' and have used it as an example of good practice to other nations that want to do exactly, Lee, what you talked about: introduce elements of creativity within their curriculum, because they recognise that those are some of the skills that their young people will need in the future, and the OECD recognise that we do this well through our Creative Learning through the Arts programme.

I'd like to thank the committee for the report. As I've stated previously, I share the committee's ambition for the provision of high-quality universal access to music education for all learners in Wales. I also recognise the need to ensure that appropriate routes exist for those learners who wish to develop and enhance their experiences and musical expertise in order to reach their full potential.

I'd like to thank Bethan for acknowledging in the report the numerous steps that we have taken to try and make progress in this area. Now, the recommendations are significant, with far-reaching organisational and financial implications for the music education sector, and as such they do require time and appropriate resources to explore and consider in depth. I would like to point to some of the issues and recommendations raised within the report, therefore.

Recommendation 1, as we have heard from numerous speakers this afternoon, refers to transferring responsibility for the delivery of music services to an arm's-length national body to ensure equitable opportunities to be core funded by the Welsh Government. It is vital that access to music and music education are available for all learners irrespective of their location, their social background and their ability to pay. We are doing all that we can to ensure that barriers to participation are removed. However, to do what is recommended is not that easy, particularly during this period of austerity where budgets are restricted. As we've also heard, the provision of music services is currently the responsibility of local authorities and not of the Welsh Government. So, it's not particularly simple simply to transfer those responsibilities to another body. We have to consider the impact and implications very carefully before we do so. Consequently, I have suggested that we carry out a feasibility study to explore suitable options for the future delivery of music services. As the Chair acknowledged herself, the actual structure, roles and responsibilities of that body need still to be worked through. As a first step, my officials are in the process of setting up a stakeholder consultation meeting with key partners to discuss the scope and terms of reference of that study, and I will of course update the committee as soon as possible on the progress made.

The report also recommends that I take ownership of music services in order to prepare a national action plan for music. However, I personally believe that it's not appropriate for me to take sole strategic responsibility for music services, as these areas are far wider than my portfolio responsibilities for schools alone. As we've just heard from Dai Lloyd, there are many opportunities for young people to pursue music outside compulsory schooling, and of course there are cross-cutting responsibilities with the department of culture here within the Welsh Government. But I do believe that it should be part of the feasibility study, and that feasibility study will look into the consideration of a national plan for music education. Perhaps I should be flattered that the Chair wants me to take over it all. And she says it's because I've done certain things since taking office; well, that will teach me, won't it—[Laughter.]—to stick my head above the parapet and try and get things done? It just means that you'll be asked to do more things.

I will also widen the feasibility study to consider the viability of alternative models of music service delivery. I am aware that there are a number of local authorities that have developed different models, and there is a need to understand demand and the effectiveness of those models. I saw first-hand recently on a trip to Denbighshire the co-operative arrangement that has been put in place there, and received feedback from teachers of schools in that area that actually tell me more children are having access to music and it's actually costing them less. So, these are interesting things that we need to understand and we need to look into further.

I am pleased that many of the recommendations from Huw Lewis's task and finish group on local authority music services have been completed, although I share your frustrations. We have tried to reuse these issues with the Welsh Local Government Association in the meetings I have with them. But I will be providing a full update on the progress from the task and finish group report by the end of this year.

Turning to the comments made in the report regarding the funding of music services, I will be blunt: I also fully accept and acknowledge that there are significant funding challenges, but, believe me, Lee, when you say that you understand the difficulties faced by local authorities when making decisions about where to prioritise those budgets, those are exactly the same conversations that go on here at a Welsh Government level. There are no easy funding solutions to this issue for us as a Government either. In response, though, despite those challenges, I am pleased that we've been able to increase the funding made available to local authorities for the purchase of musical instruments. We have made £1 million funding available per annum for 2018-19 and 2019-20 for music provision, and I'm currently considering proposals on how the money should be allocated. This includes an option of making, perhaps, more funding available to each local authority to purchase yet more instruments. I'm delighted and grateful to the Members in this Chamber who handed over their instruments that were lurking in their cupboards, whether that be Lee Waters's daughter's guitar, my daughter's violin, and I think Lynne Neagle's son was glad to see shot of the instruments that Lynne was able to bring in. But we've also been able to support the purchase of instruments. When I was visiting Denbighshire, I got to see the new piano that has been bought for that particular co-operative as a result of that funding. Working with Bethan, I will determine the best way to allocate this money to ensure that it is used to best effect and that, crucially, it is sustainable, and I hope to make an announcement before the end of this autumn term.

Several of the report's recommendations fall to organisations that operate outside the direct control of the Government, such as National Youth Arts Wales. I cannot respond on behalf of those organisations, but I can confirm that Welsh Government officials are working closely with the Arts Council for Wales and National Youth Arts Wales to ensure that these recommendations are fully explored.

If I move to Anthem, Music Fund Wales, which has been established, a new chair has been appointed, and the appointment will be publicly announced in November. While Anthem will be a stand-alone charitable organisation with no direct links to Government, we, together with other stakeholder organisations, will be working in close partnership with that new body as it develops in the years ahead. So, I can assure you, Lee—we're not going to leave it to drift off on its own. Anthem faces the twin challenges of establishing its own identity and brand while embarking on an ambitious fundraising strategy of raising the capital necessary to enable it to start making a real impact for young musicians by 2021. It's vitally important that this is done, I recognise, without adversely affecting funds that currently support other arts and education provision, but I am confident that this can be achieved. We should stress that music isn't necessarily for everyone, and what we want to ensure is that there are creative and artistic opportunities of all sorts available to our children, depending on what their passion is.

Will you take an intervention, please?

Yes.

Yes, okay, briefly. 

Yes, okay. Do you recognise, then, that with regard to the very many different strands and the very good initiatives that are coming forward, there is a need for a cohesive strategy or plan to be able to draw all of those initiatives under one strategic vision for music education for Wales?

As I said earlier, Rhianon, we will look at the recommendation with regard to the plan as part of the feasibility study. What concerns me is that music education doesn't just happen in isolation within the school setting. We have to look at the opportunities in the round, but that's what the feasibility study will look at. 

To sum up, Deputy Presiding Officer, the committee has set the Welsh Government a real challenge in exploring how best to deal with the issue of music services and music provision, but it is a challenge that I am very happy to accept. It may take some time to fully explore all the potential options available, but we will continue to monitor and evaluate the situation around existing provision in this area as well as taking steps, where we can, to alleviate those pressures. I will provide the committee and fellow Assembly Members with regular updates and progress at key stages.

Thank you. Can I now call on the Chair of the committee, Bethan Sayed, to respond to the debate?

I'm conscious of time, and not having much of it to go through everybody's comments, but thank you to everybody who has taken part. I know that you have been lobbied to attend and to take part in this debate, and you would do it anyway because it's so important. So, thank you very much—and to all the committee members, past and present, who have showed such enthusiasm in this regard.

Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for all of her comments. It is reassuring to hear that you are putting this at the front of the political agenda, and I guess what I was trying to say about the music in education plans was not to try and be—I don't know what the word was—churlish, but, if the recommendations were refused, obviously as a committee, we need to go through them in fine detail to understand how we can progress them. It's reassuring to hear, therefore, that that's going to be considered within the feasibility study so that we can understand, if it's not going to be directly one responsibility within Government, as per your education Cabinet Secretary role, how that could potentially look by engaging with experts in the field. That's all I think I and others are concerned about—to understand how a plan would work and how we can involve the best people in Wales in relation to making that happen. So, I look forward to hearing, by the end of the year, the task and finish group's recommendations, as well as continuing discussions with regard to the £2 million also.

I think it's really worth emphasising the fact that the OECD have said that, though, about creative learning through the arts, because if we're going to be—. Lots of the comments here have said about how we want to mainstream, how we want to ensure that this is a skills agenda—if we can show to the world that it's being utilised through our education systems, that is one way, if nothing else, to be able to do that. So, I welcome that work as well.

To turn to the other Assembly Members briefly, I know that Suzy Davies—. Thank you—you've left the committee now, but thank you for your valuable input, and I'm sure it will help you as an education portfolio spokesperson. You mentioned the expert advice. That was very, very useful, and I hope that's something that the Welsh Government can consider as part of the feasibility study for the arm's-length body, because without—. We were constantly going back to the music professionals to tell us how they thought our ideas were progressing, and I think that's something I'd like to do in future committee inquiries. And you said as well that it cannot be left to cash-strapped councils to take this on, and I think that's basically why we came to the conclusion that we did. Co-production, of course, is incredibly important, because, of course, we can set the national strategic direction, but it's people who understand on the ground how music services operate that are key here.

Lee Waters, thank you for your contributions as well during the committee. I valued the fact that you said that it was a difficult issue and that we had taken our time to look at this decisively. It wasn't something I thought we should rush through, because, of course, we could have said very popular things to some people, but that would have been very difficult to operate. For example, if we had made it statutory, then what would that have said of other services? That's the controversial issue that we have to face here today. I personally agree with you in relation to the WLGA. They may be talking more progressively now with the Cabinet Secretary, but, when they came in to give evidence, they didn't seem to know what was happening with the recommendations. Perhaps this whole debate has livened them up somewhat; I hope that is what has happened in this regard.

Just briefly on the endowment, just before I finish, I think that it's worth probably mentioning here in this debate that I met with the community foundation. They have a wealth of experience in relation to the endowment funds, and they haven't yet been utilised in relation to Anthem, as far as I understand it, so it might be good to engage with them—if they have that skill base already here in Wales, we should utilise it.

I haven't got any more time; I'm seeing the red system up there. Thank you to Rhianon—I know you are passionate about this area—and to Nick Ramsay and Dr Dai Lloyd, who all took part in this debate this afternoon. It just shows how important this issue is, and I hope that we can see change on the ground so that our families and our children of the future will all be able to take part in music services and they'll have the same stories to tell—some of them not to be told in this room—of their times on various orchestras or dance companies, so that they can show future generations how important this is for them.

Thank you very much to the clerking team as well and to everyone who’s taken part in this important work, and to the people who've turned up here today for this debate. It’s important that the public are a vital part of the work that we do as a committee. Thank you very much.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No, therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.