The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Darren Millar, and amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Item 10 is a debate on the Equality and Human Rights Commission's Wales committee annual review 2017-18, and I call on the Counsel General to move that motion. Jeremy Miles.

Motion NDM6849 Julie James

To propose the National Assembly of Wales:

Notes the Equality and Human Rights Commission Wales Committee Annual Review 2017-2018.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate today on the Wales committee of the Equality and Human Rights Commission's annual report for the year 2017-2018. The review was launched earlier today in the Assembly with the UN rapporteur on poverty and human rights, and with the Chair of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, John Griffiths. 

I want to thank the Wales committee and the staff of the EHRC, including those who are here today in the public gallery, not just for the report but for the hard work they do to promote equality and human rights in Wales. I recognise that this includes the commission's responsibility to 'shine a light on uncomfortable truths', to quote the commissioner in Wales, Dr June Milligan.

During the past year, since the last debate on the EHRC annual review, the Welsh Government has been driving forward our goal of making Wales a more equal nation. The leader of the house has met several times with June Milligan and Ruth Coombs, head of the EHRC in Wales, to discuss how we can work jointly to address and eradicate the inequalities we still see in Wales.

This year, it's important that, alongside the annual review, we should also take careful notice of the EHRC's 'Is Wales Fairer? (2018)' report, which provides substantial fresh evidence to drive and underpin the work of all policymakers and delivery agencies who are seeking to build a more equal Wales. That report is a valuable tool to help us to ensure our decision making is robust and that our policies and services take account of people's needs and are accessible to all. We will also be considering all of the commission's recommendations in 'Is Wales Fairer?' carefully to decide what new or different actions are needed in response. Taken together, the annual report and 'Is Wales Fairer?' demonstrate how productive the EHRC has been this year. This is, of course, in the context of what remains an exceptionally challenging time for human rights, both in the UK and abroad.

I will not try to highlight all the other work the commission has undertaken this year; you can see for yourselves in the review. I will, however, address some of the crucial aspects of their role. 

The UK's exit from the European Union continues to bring uncertainty, not least in relation to equality and human rights, and we'll be debating those issues in more detail tomorrow. In these challenging times, the commission's work remains vital, and I again thank the Wales team and their colleagues around the UK for the advice and evidence they provided to our joint committee's report on equalities and Brexit. The decades of EU membership have produced a legacy of benefits covering many, many aspects of daily life in Wales, and we intend to safeguard these benefits in Wales, and we will vigorously oppose any attempt to cut corners or create worse conditions as we leave the EU. 

Creating a more equal Wales, where everyone has the opportunity to reach their full potential and is able to contribute fully to the economy, will enable Wales to be more prosperous and innovative. It is therefore vital, for example, that all women are able to achieve and prosper, and we are committed to working with the EHRC and others to ensure fair employment in Wales, to protect workers' rights, and ensure women do not face discrimination in the workplace in relation to pregnancy or maternity. The EHRC's Working Forward campaign not only benefits women in the workplace—it also makes good business sense to support staff in the workplace generally. 

The commission continues to promote gender equality, including through its submission to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, assessing the progress on women's rights since 2013, and making recommendations both to the UK and the Welsh Governments. Our own programme of work on gender equality continues through the gender equality review. Chwarae Teg is leading on delivery of phase 2 of the review, building on the work they completed in phase 1. The leader of the house chairs the steering group overseeing the review, and the EHRC is represented by Ruth Coombs. We will be considering both the CEDAW submission and the evidence and recommendations from 'Is Wales Fairer? (2018)?'

Our approach involves working across different equality strands, including race, disability and age, and aiming to ensure that no-one is left behind. We recognise that women and girls who experience multiple and intersecting forms of discrimination are often excluded from progress. By summer 2019, we will have a clear road map, in the form of the phase 2 report, for achieving gender equality in Wales, and the work will continue beyond the formal end of the project to ensure that the right things are being done to achieve this goal.

This year, we have really accelerated progress in delivering the objectives in our national strategy on violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence. The number of public sector workers we have trained has topped 135,000. For the first time, local health boards and local authorities have published strategies on tackling these issues. We've run two very successful communications campaigns, and we have worked with survivors and stakeholders to inform policy development and delivery. But there is still a mountain to climb, and we need to do more to ensure that we deliver what is needed, where it is needed and when it is needed. 

During this year, the EHRC has been carrying out an extensive monitoring exercise to assess how well the Welsh public sector is fulfilling their duties under the Equality Act 2010. This work is close to completion, and we look forward to discussing the findings with the commission. I have also been reflecting on what we can do strengthen the public sector equality duty. Our initial priorities, closely linked to the gender review, are to address pay and employment gaps. We will be taking early steps to strengthen the guidance and regulation around these duties, to improve the monitoring arrangements and ensure that information on the performance of the Welsh public sector as a whole is readily available and easy to find.

We acknowledge that there is more to do in Wales to promote disabled people's rights. The EHRC report 'Being disabled in Britain' and their housing inquiry report have both provided food for thought, and influenced our new draft framework, 'Action on disability: the right to independent living'. I urge you to respond to the consultation, which is open until mid January. 

The commission's report on the cumulative impact of UK Government tax and welfare reforms, both implemented and proposed, on people sharing different protected characteristics was a shocking revelation of the UK Government's austerity measures. It is profoundly wrong in a civilised nation to ignore the impacts of these reforms on equality, and it is a serious injustice for the incomes of the poorest and most vulnerable groups in our society to be impacted in such a disproportionate way. Yet a combination of reducing incomes and cuts to vital support services are the bleak reality for too many people in the UK. We will continue our efforts to mitigate the impact of austerity measures on some of the most disadvantaged people in Wales, but we cannot possibly do all that is really needed.

'Is Wales Fairer? (2018)' calls for the Welsh Government to enact the socioeconomic duty of the Equality Act 2010

'to tackle the biggest driver of inequality in Wales: poverty.'

The leader of the house has discussed this extensively, and, in particular, I know she thanks the future generations commissioner for her advice on how this might work within the context of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. Within the last week, officials have been asked to scope a research project to model and test what practical impacts different options would be likely to have. Engagement and consultation with protected groups are fundamental requirements of our Welsh-specific equality duties. This engagement is vital to understand, identify and address barriers to equality and deliver policies and services that are efficient and effective.

'Is Wales Fairer?' adds to our evidence base on equality and human rights and will contribute substantially to the Welsh Government's work in the coming years, not least the consultation on our next set of equality objectives for 2020-24, which will start early in the new year. Aligning our objectives with the commissioner's challenges will ensure we are taking a targeted, joined-up approach to tackling inequality in Wales. I hope it may be possible to develop objectives, not just for the Welsh Government alone, but ones that can be shared and supported across the Welsh public sector. 

Engagement with the public sector and other stakeholders makes up a large part of the EHRC's work, including through their exchange network. This year also saw again an oversubscribed annual conference, which focused on identity-based violence, violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence. Nazir Afzal, one of the two national advisers on these matters, spoke at the event. Also very popular was the EHRC's chair, David Isaac's lecture on human rights in the twenty-first century, which looked at the potential impact of Brexit in Wales. 

So, we thank the commission for their work, not only this year, but since their inception. I think these examples emphasise the importance that Welsh civil society places on the work the EHRC does in Wales to improve lives and safeguard rights. The commission is an evaluator, an enforcer, an influencer and, critically, a catalyst for change. We remain grateful for its guidance and we value its strong and distinct presence in Wales.

I have selected the five amendments to the motion, and I call on Mark Isherwood to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Mark.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Add as new point at end of motion:

Notes:

a) the report’s key recommendations regarding the public sector equality duty; and

b) the recommendation in the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee and the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee letter to the First Minister for the Welsh Government to outline its latest position on the introduction of the socio-economic duty.

Amendment 1 moved.

Diolch. As the review states, the Equality and Human Rights Commission or EHRC Wales team works to inform legislation, policy and scrutiny and to embed equality and human rights in public service delivery in Wales. It also makes extensive reference to the commission's 2018 'Is Wales Fairer?' report. Nineteen years after devolution, its findings include: poverty and deprivation are both higher in Wales than in other nations in Britain; Wales is the least productive nation in the UK—median hourly earnings in Wales are lower than in England and Scotland; adults in Wales report far higher levels of poor mental health and well-being than in England; Wales has a higher suicide rate than England, with men over four times more likely to die by suicide than women; disabled people are falling further behind, evidenced by disparities with non-disabled people increasing rather than reducing; compared to England and Scotland, Wales has the lowest life expectancies, particularly for disabled people, and high levels of racism and violence against women. Figures from north Wales police also show that one in four people who report domestic violence there are now men.

Parallel to this, last month's Bevan Foundation poverty rates in Wales report found a higher relative income poverty rate in Wales than in England, Northern Ireland and Scotland, a higher proportion of working-age adults in poverty in Wales than in any other UK nation, and a pensioner poverty rate in Wales far higher than in any of the other UK nations.

The EHRC highlighted a stark attainment gap between disabled learners, including deaf pupils, and their peers. As the National Deaf Children’s Society Cymru states, we need a Welsh Government commitment to address this. The EHRC also reports high exclusion rates for pupils with additional learning needs. As it states, the consequences of this can be very serious. However, although a court ruling has now made clear that schools must ensure that they've made appropriate adjustments for autistic pupils before they can resort to exclusion, I was contacted by yet another parent last week whose autistic son had been excluded.

Damningly, the EHRC also found limited evidence available to examine how Welsh Government policies have affected particular groups, as very few robust evaluations of policies have been carried out in the period under review. It says

'There should be a sharp focus on improving life in Wales for disabled people, with the Welsh  Government incorporating the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD) fully into Welsh legislation.'

As Disability Wales states, this would strengthen involvement of disabled people and their representative organisations in informing and influencing policy.

The Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act Part 2 code of practice states that local authorities must put:

'robust arrangements in place to secure involvement of people in the design and operation of services' and

'that well-being includes key aspects of independent living, as expressed in the UN Convention on the Rights of Disabled People'.

But, I hear almost daily from disabled people and carers who are having to fight for the support they need to enable them to live an independent life, because people in power don’t want to share it, and label them the problem.

The EHRC states, 

'The Wales Act 2017 has given the Welsh Government the opportunity to enact a socio-economic duty, which would ensure public bodies work together to tackle the biggest driver of inequality in Wales: poverty.'

I therefore move amendment 1, referring to the joint committee recommendation for the Welsh Government to outline its position on the introduction of the socioeconomic duty. In his July response to that, the First Minister stated,

'We will work with the UK Government' and

'with the Equality and Human Rights Commission on these issues.'

Therefore, I'd be grateful if the Counsel General could add to his comments regarding this a few moments ago in the context of that statement by the First Minister on working with the UK Government as well as the EHRC.

Our amendment also notes the report’s key recommendations regarding the public sector equality duty, which calls on the Welsh Government to review how the duty could be amended to focus public bodies on taking action to address the key challenges in this report. I regularly represent constituents on issues ranging from deafhood to autism, disability support to access, and routinely have to remind public bodies of their public sector equality duty. Too often, their response illustrates a shockingly poor understanding of the barriers faced by disabled people.

As the EHRC states,

'In 2022 we want to see significant progress on equality and human rights in Wales that results in reductions in entrenched and persistent inequality.' 

As they say,

'We want everyone to live in a fairer Wales.'

I now call on Leanne Wood to move amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Amendment 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth

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Regrets the end of the Welsh independent living grant and believes that local government cannot provide the equivalent level of financial support due to the Welsh Government's cuts.

Amendment 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point at end of motion:

Regrets the continued inadequate funding for support services for survivors of sexual assault and domestic abuse.

Amendment 4—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point at end of motion:

Regrets the finding that poverty in Wales is deepening and believes that tackling poverty and class inequalities should play a key role in promoting equality and human rights.

Amendment 5—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point at end of motion:

Regrets the growth internationally of political movements seeking to roll back human rights protections and calls on the Welsh Government to publish a plan for maintaining human rights following withdrawal from the EU.

Amendments 2, 3, 4 and 5 moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, I move the amendments tabled in Rhun ap Iorwerth's name. But, before I address the amendments, I'd like to briefly address the issues around poverty outlined in this report, 'Is Wales Fairer?' The report shows that Wales has a relative poverty rate higher than England or Scotland's and that the relative poverty rate for 16 to 24-year-olds has increased by a staggering 17.7 percentage points. Now, it appears, because it says on page 57 of this report, that:

'In Britain overall, poverty rates have not changed significantly since 2010/11.'

That means, of course, that poverty levels are worse here than elsewhere. And if that is correct, as a Government, you need to get to the bottom of why that is. If this deepening of poverty is indeed just happening in Wales, then this poverty can't be explained by austerity, because otherwise we would see the same trends elsewhere. That means that we in Wales need specific solutions, and that starts by acknowledging and accepting that we have specific problems that need to be addressed, and it means having an anti-poverty strategy, and it means getting the basics right, like definitions—something that the Government is lacking on so far. 

I now turn to the amendments, all of which are aimed at addressing poverty and inequality. Amendment 2 is an invitation to Labour backbenchers to support their own party's policy over what the whip says, but I won't be holding my breath. The Welsh independent living grant is being phased out, with responsibility being passed to local authorities. There's already considerable evidence that this is leading to reduced levels of support, significantly harming the most disabled people in Wales. So, I appeal to all of you: please don't vote against this amendment today on the basis of assurances of a review, assurances that these are only isolated incidents, or even that these problems don't exist, or that, somehow, disabled people are lying. Those points should be treated with the contempt that they deserve. It's absurd to suggest that local authorities are going to be able to provide equivalent levels of support, given the financial pressures that we all know that they face. 

Turning to amendment 3, on the continued lack of funding for services that help survivors of sexual assault and rape, the First Minister of course says that he wants Wales to be the safest country for women, so I eagerly await details of how, in the context of austerity and local authority cuts, these services that can reduce the impact of adverse childhood experiences will receive the increased funding that they badly need.

Amendment 4 is tabled to ensure that all of us treat class inequalities as an equalities issue. Some areas of our political culture have just about grasped that sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia and ableism have negative impacts on the lives of the majority of citizens in Wales. Discrimination leads to poor decision making. Well, so does discrimination on the basis of social class, and this report clearly shows that poverty is deepening and we should regret that and be prepared to do something about it. That's why things have to change. Public bodies have a duty to ensure that we create a Wales where no-one is left behind, and all employers, public and private, have a duty to become a living wage employer—a real living wage employer—and this would have the impact on poverty that I've referenced earlier.

Turning to amendment 5, which is a broader point about why we are having these debates, it's a disappointment to all of us, I'm sure, that we've seen a growth of political movements seeking to roll back even the most basic human rights protections over the last decade. From Trump to Bolsonaro and the recent friends of the Conservative Party in Hungary, via a Brexit detour, we've seen attacks on the very concept of human rights coming from the wealthiest and most powerful. At least in the 1930s, ordinary Germans could use the excuse of not being able to predict the future if they tacitly tolerated the Nazis, but there is no excuse today for supporting these political movements. I can scarcely believe that we have to restate the case for human rights, but it's absolutely clear that we do, and, hopefully, we can maintain a progressive alliance here to do just that.

I'm pleased to speak in this debate as Chair of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee. The commission, of course, is one of our committee's key stakeholders, and throughout this reporting period we have continued to have an effective and constructive relationship, which has helped inform a range of our work. I was pleased to welcome the EHRC to the Senedd earlier today to mark the publication of their report, 'Is Wales Fairer?' 2018. This has been an important part of the commission's work over the last year and has resulted in an important and comprehensive report that provides a clear evidence base for assessing whether we are making progress in reducing inequality in Wales. I know that our committee will use this report as an important tool in our scrutiny in the coming years. It sets out a number of clear, cross-cutting recommendations, which if implemented could make a significant difference. Their cross-cutting nature helps to signal that equality is something that impacts on all aspects of life rather than it being a single issue only some people need to consider. In particular, I would highlight the recommendation for the Welsh Government to set achievable and binding targets to reduce poverty and to report on progress annually. This very much resonates with the findings of our committee. We've been calling for a single anti-poverty strategy for some time now, along with the need for clear targets and indicators against which progress can be monitored. 

We would hope that the Government will accept the commission's recommendation and implement it as soon as possible. It is important that we are able to understand what progress is being made to tackle poverty, given the extent of socioeconomic issues here in Wales. And enacting the socioeconomic duty is very important also, and I very much welcome the Counsel General's announcement of work to consider its enactment. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, moving on to other aspects of the annual review, the commission's work on the experiences of pregnant and new parents directly influenced our recent work on parenting and employment, which we debated in the Chamber this term. The commission's Working Forward campaign aims to make workplaces the best they can be for pregnant women and new parents. It is heartening that over 30 leading Welsh organisations have signed the pledge, including the Welsh Government. I very much hope that more companies and organisations will sign and help bring about necessary improvement. 

The review also highlights the work the EHRC has been doing so that we can better understand the potential implications of Brexit. This will be an issue that will be debated tomorrow in the Chamber, but I would stress that the EHRC has played an important role in our committee's understanding of what Brexit might mean for human rights. The majority of our committee supports the commission's calls to ensure that rights currently protected under the EU charter of fundamental rights are continued once we leave the European Union. I look forward to debating those issues in more detail tomorrow. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing I would like to commend the review to the Assembly and the important work that the commission continues to do here in Wales. 

Thanks to the Counsel General for bringing today's debate and to the Wales Equality and Human Rights Commission for their annual review. We in UKIP note the efforts to bring more disabled people into the workplace and bring more apprenticeships to women and ethnic minorities, among other laudable objectives that are outlined in the report. We have a number of amendments today—one from the Conservatives and four from Plaid Cymru. We broadly support the thrust of these amendments, apart from Plaid's amendment 5, which seems to be saying that the populist right is seeking to roll back human rights protections. From the fairly vague wording of the amendment, I wasn't—[Interruption.] Okay, if you say so. From the fairly vague wording of the amendment, I wasn't totally sure which specific protections were being referred to today. Donald Trump was mentioned, so let's have a look at Donald Trump for a moment. Some commentators would claim that President Trump is indeed attempting to roll back—

Would you give way, Gareth?

No, not today, thank you, Neil. 

Some commentators would claim that President Trump is indeed attempting to roll back human rights protections in the USA. But to me he is simply trying to protect the USA's southern border from illegal immigration. I'm not sure I would agree that trying to implement an immigration policy that has been constitutionally agreed by the federal Government and its democratically elected legislatures actually amounts to rolling back human rights. Well, actually, I'm sure it doesn't represent that, and I think that Trump's election demonstrates that a broad mass of the US population don't think that either—

Would the Member give way?

No thanks.

[Inaudible.]—giving way.

What does intrigue me is the issue of free speech. We now seem to have—[Interruption.] Thanks, Alun. We now seem to have a situation where the concept of free speech seems to clash with minority rights. So, the political left, far from championing people's liberty to speak and broadcast their opinions, are now trying to clamp down on this and get people who say the wrong things prosecuted. Elements of the left tried to ban me from this Chamber a year ago and, of course, there are now moves afoot to get me banned again. Banning elected politicians for broadcasting opinions that the left does not like does not seem very consistent to me with having a genuine interest in human rights. In other words, the left is rather hypocritical on this, hence this ludicrous amendment 5 from Plaid Cymru today, which we oppose. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

I welcome the EHRC report updating us on the state of equality and human rights in Wales in 2018. I want to focus today, and will again tomorrow in the equalities and Brexit debate, on one action, and that's the recommendation to the Welsh Government by the EHRC and backed by two Assembly committees that the Welsh Government should bring the socioeconomic equality duty to life in Wales. In 'Is Wales Fairer?', the EHRC calls on the Welsh Government to enact the socioeconomic equality duty in the Equality Act 2010 so that public bodies have due regard to the need to reduce the inequalities of outcome that result from socioeconomic disadvantage. We need the commitment from the Welsh Government that this will be progressed as rapidly as possible.

I want to use the opportunity today to return to two key themes that I've been speaking on over the past year. The first is my commitment to tackling the gender pay gap. Earlier this year, I noted from the World Economic Forum that it will take 217 years to achieve gender pay parity. We had the opportunity this year to scrutinise the impact of the Equality Act provision for companies with workforces of over 250, with the appalling shortfalls in gender pay hitting the headlines. And I fully support the Women's Equality Network manifesto in this regard, which calls for the gender pay gap to be halved by 2028. It was the Office for National Statistics that recently revealed that the gender pay gap for full-time workers had fallen to a record low of 8.6 per cent, compared with 9.1 per cent last year, and is at its lowest since records began in 1997, when it stood at 17.4 per cent. But as Frances O'Grady, the general secretary of the TUC, said in response to these figures:

'Working women won't be celebrating this negligible decrease in the gender pay gap. At this rate, another generation of women will spend their whole working lives waiting to be paid the same as men.'

And she was, of course, backed by the Fawcett Society's Sam Smethers, who said:

'This is a practically static picture on pay inequality…and it’s a missed opportunity for our economy. Improving our performance on gender equality in the workplace could increase GDP by £150 billion.'

The second, final point I want to make relates to the need for women to be fully represented with gender parity in the Assembly, as recommended in 'A Parliament that Works for Wales'. We achieved this gender parity in 2003, all too briefly, as a result of positive actions such as the constituency twinning that Welsh Labour took forward and women-only shortlists. But we have slipped back again as an Assembly. Yet the public opinion has moved ahead, as we saw in the recent Beaufort Research-Western Mail poll, which reported last week that 53 per cent of the population were either definitely or possibly in favour of legislation that would ensure an equal number of male and female AMs. The majority responding in favour of the legislation came from across Wales, with the poorest and youngest people most in favour of achieving this balance. And these are the people I represent in my constituency, whose voices I want to be heard in this Assembly and by the Welsh Labour Government. So, I'd like this legislation to be in place for a gender-balanced Assembly in time for the next election in 2021, and I back the chief executive officer of Chwarae Teg, who welcomes this poll, as I do, saying that politicians across the political spectrum must act. And this is backed by the EHRC in their comments in their report on promoting human rights participation in Wales. They say:

'We made recommendations to Welsh Government and National Assembly consultations on electoral arrangements with the aim of ensuring elected representatives are reflective of the diversity of Wales.'

And they're calling on the Welsh Government to consider the case for changing legislation, so that roles such as Ministers, public appointees and councillors may be job shared, and that all Welsh public authorities should advertise all jobs as flexible by default.

So, I'm one of those politicians who believe we must act. I'll continue to press for the socioeconomic duty to be adopted, and for legislative action to be commenced, to achieve gender parity, in line with public opinion, and the pursuit of what the Counsel General rightly says should be a fairer and more equal Wales.

There are some data gaps identified in the report. I think the Government needs to meet the call for 'Talk to me', and to develop improvements to reduce suicide, particularly for men, because the biggest killer of men under 45 in Wales is in fact suicide. There are huge gaps also in data and research for mental health provision amongst ethnic minorities. I'll just give you one example. There are no suicide rates for anybody from an ethnic minority, so we just don't know if certain communities are being affected in particular ways. The Government has recognised previously that there are higher rates of discrimination in health against people from minority backgrounds, who are very often seen as being aggressive and uncooperative, and the lack of adequate translation in the health service really doesn't help there. And passive racism, frankly, is also a problem.

The conversations that we need to have, which are not actually in the document—I'll talk about suicide again, for example. There is research out there that shows that southern Asian women are two and a half times more likely to attempt suicide than white women, especially in the age group of 18 to 24. I think it's good in the report that there is specialist support for ethnic minority women, disabled women and women with complex needs, in terms of domestic abuse support. But there's an absence of gender-responsive services for male victims of domestic abuse. And men are the largest minority group of victims in violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, yet they receive the lowest level of support.

There's a lack of equality in housing that I want to mention, which is not actually in the report. Because if you're a non-resident parent—and, really, the term is slightly misleading—it's if you have less care time for your children, then that is not taken into account in terms of housing allocation, by housing associations or indeed councils. So, you may have care for your children every weekend, or two days a week, but if you're on the housing list, your children will not be taken into account. So, for example, you could have five children, and you would be allocated a one-bedroom flat. Historically, I think this has been seen as a male issue, but what I'm finding through my work—I tend to attract a lot of cases like this—is that it's becoming a lot more gender neutral. I had a woman in my office last week talking about this very problem, and as a result she may well lose contact with her children. It's a real inequality that we're not actually talking about.

I just want to deal with one amendment—and I wasn't able to get in there with Gareth. The Plaid amendment says that it regrets the growth internationally of political movements seeking to roll back human rights protections, and calls on the Welsh Government to publish a plan for maintaining human rights following withdrawal from the EU. I see nothing wrong with that—no particular group is mentioned, nobody is singled out, it's just a recognition of what is actually happening in the world. And I fully support that. I just find it strange that anybody would want to vote against a plan to maintain human rights—quite strange. Diolch.

I want to thank the Wales committee, led by June Milligan, and the staff at the commission, for their work on these very important issues. I wanted to start by highlighting the inequality and discrimination faced by the Gypsy/Roma/Traveller young people in particular, some of which is highlighted in this report. Two weeks ago I attended Travelling Ahead's tenth national forum at Baskerville Hall in Hay with 50 young people from the Gypsy/Traveller/Roma community and many of the organisations working with those communities, and with Assembly Commission staff. The day was really an inspiring day—the young people were filled with enthusiasm and they were so glad to have the opportunity of putting forward their views about their place in society. I took part in a group that discussed the lack of awareness of Gypsy/Traveller culture, in particular by schoolteachers and other pupils in the schools. And one of the quite simple wishes of those children was that there could be a special assembly devoted to their culture. Many of the children did say, in fact, that they never said that they were a Gypsy—they hid their origins—because as soon as people knew they were a Gypsy, people's attitudes towards them changed immediately.

What did come over in the discussions was the huge importance of the Traveller education service, and many of the children said that they wouldn't be at school at all if it wasn't for the support of the service, and, as the report points out, only one in five Gypsy/Roma/Traveller children leave school with five GCSEs at A-C grade, which is a damning indictment, really, of the education service that we are providing for them. I know there has been a lot of concern about how the Traveller education service has been affected by the lack of ring fencing for the education improvement grant. I don't know whether the Cabinet Secretary, in his response, would be in a position to say how that service has been affected or whether he would need to refer it to the leader of the house when she comes back. But I do think it's very important that we do have actual evidence about how the Traveller education service is being affected.

Also, in 'Is Wales Fairer?' there is reference to the fact that Gypsy/Roma/Traveller families, along with transgender people and refugees and asylum seekers, continue to experience difficulties accessing quality health services, and I wanted the Cabinet Secretary also to look at that, because I know we did have a special inquiry into how we should provide services for the Traveller community, and I wanted to know what was the follow-up to that. 

It does seem that prejudice against Gypsies is the last acceptable prejudice. I've been approached by the Traveller community about the publicity following the funeral at Rover Way in Cardiff, which resulted in traffic jams in parts of the city. The comments that were put on Facebook following the WalesOnline article were absolutely shocking, saying things like, 'Auschwitz is empty at the moment' and other horrifying comments. How are people, human beings, supposed to feel if these comments go up publicly on the internet, on social media? How are they ever going to feel as part of society? I think this is a huge challenge for us all, and I think that, whenever we all speak, we must be aware of how people feel, how they respond to comments we make and anything that leads to those sort of comments.

But one of the very positive things that's happening at the moment is the setting up of the youth parliament, and it's really exciting, I think, that voting is now taking place. There are 480 candidates. I'm absolutely thrilled that, on the top-up list, there will be a place for a Gypsy/Roma/Traveller young person, and, on the day that I was at Baskerville Hall, the young people were voting for their choice. It just seemed to me that this was absolutely the right way that we should go as a society—to make an effort to include people who are not included naturally and where there is this awful prejudice. They were so excited. They had their manifestos. There were three young people who were competing against each other and it just felt such a positive thing that this was happening, and I felt very proud that the Assembly was doing this and that this opportunity would be offered, because there's an awful lot to fight against.

Thank you very much. Can I now call on the Counsel General to reply to the debate?

Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd. I'd like to thank Assembly Members for participating in the debate, which has clearly demonstrated why it's important that the Equality and Human Rights Commission continues to have a strong and distinct presence in Wales. Most of the contributions started from the premise that a society based on equality and human rights was a given, even if we may approach it from different perspectives in some cases. I think one contribution in particular reminded us that we rest on our laurels if we believe we can stop making the case daily for a society based on equality and human rights. 

There were a number of points made in the debate. I will turn to them through the amendments, if I may, and the comments that Julie Morgan just made in relation to Gypsy/Traveller families, I will direct those, if I may, to the leader of the house to provide that information to her.

Turning to the amendments, we support amendment 1. As I said in my opening speech, we welcome the commission's recommendations, both in the annual report and in 'Is Wales Fairer?', and we are already working both to strengthen the Welsh public sector equality duty and, as Mark Isherwood, Jane Hutt and others have raised, to consider the options around enacting a socioeconomic duty in Part 1 of the Equality Act 2010 in Wales, which is a potentially very powerful tool for reform and for equality in Wales.

We oppose amendment 2. I didn't recognise some of the comments that Leanne Wood made in that particular context. The Welsh independent living grant was only ever an interim measure to ensure continuity of support whilst long-term arrangements to support people affected by the UK Government's closure of the independent living fund were agreed. Following engagement with stakeholders, the then Minister for social services announced in 2016 that support in future would be provided, as has been indicated, by local authorities' social services, and support is provided for the vast majority of disabled people in Wales who are not able to access the ILF. Since April this year, therefore, the full transfer of £27 million a year that we receive from the UK Government has been allocated to local authorities on a recurrent basis to enable them to support people who used to receive payments from the ILF to continue to live independently.

We also oppose amendment 3. Like the previous amendment, it fails, I think, to recognise what the Welsh Government is already doing. We recognise that sexual violence services are often described as cinderella services and, at the same time, victims of domestic abuse are being turned away from refuges due to shortages of places. Whilst we do not yet have a—

Will you take an intervention?

Certainly.

I've just had an e-mail here, now, this afternoon, that says that countless women are being failed by the system and that there is a 12-month list for trauma counselling that you can't have if your case goes to court, yet you're claiming you're doing enough. You're clearly not, are you?

Well, the Member will have heard me say in my speech that, despite the investment in support services, there is still a mountain to climb and that remains our position. We recognise that, whilst the work we are doing is having an impact, there is more that we can and we must do, and that is reflected, I think, in the contribution that I made at the start in my opening remarks. We don't yet have a clear picture as to whether the issue around refuges is due to underfunding or whether it's because funding has not been directed at services that have the greatest impact, but we absolutely recognise these issues need to be addressed urgently, and the First of Minister, in fact, will be making an announcement about this on 12 November.

We support amendment 4. Both Leanne Wood and John Griffiths spoke on the themes of this amendment. Breaking the cycle of deprivation and poverty is a long-term commitment for Welsh Government, which is only exacerbated by the UK Government's welfare reforms. We are moving in the right direction. Our child poverty legislation, our support for fair work, the new economic contract and the real living wage all underline our commitment to tackling poverty and inequality. Nevertheless, we know we need to do more if we are to make a real and lasting difference. And, as I said in my opening speech, officials have already been tasked with looking at the options around enacting the socioeconomic duty in Wales, which a number of Members have raised in their contributions.

We also support amendment 5. The Welsh Government has made clear our commitment to promoting and protecting human rights and making sure it's embedded, as it is, in the founding legislation of the Welsh Government and, indeed, in all that we do, and despite the way that the UK Government is handling Brexit negotiations. The Government of Wales Act 2006 makes specific provision in relation to international obligations. Section 82 gives the Secretary of State intervention powers in relation to action by the Welsh Ministers that he or she considers to be incompatible with such an obligation. The Welsh Government continues to have high regard for the international human rights treaties and UN conventions to which the UK is a state party signatory. We seek to reflect both the spirit and the substance of each convention across our policies and programmes, as appropriate, at all times.

I'll close the debate by once again thanking the Equality and Human Rights Commission. For the past 10 years, the commission has worked alongside the public sector, the private sector and the third sector to tackle inequality and injustice in Wales. Year on year, the commission has delivered a distinct and relevant work programme to reflect the unique political, legal and social landscape of Wales. The commission is a critical friend to the National Assembly for Wales, here to guide us all and bring about positive change. We look forward to working with them in the future and continuing our positive and productive relationship. 

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed in accordance with Standing Orders. 

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The proposal is to agree amendment 2. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Object. Therefore, we'll defer all voting until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.

Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will proceed directly to voting time. Okay, thank you.