Questions now from the party spokespeople to the Cabinet Secretary. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you, Llywydd. The news that the Planning Inspectorate for England and Wales intends to scrap the role of the executive director for Wales is clearly going to come as a surprise to many people, and it will send a clear message in terms of the risk that Wales is being downgraded within that inspectorate. Can I ask the Cabinet Secretary what role she and the Welsh Government played in that decision?

I quite agree with you—any downgrading in the status of the Welsh arm of the inspectorate, I think, is completely unacceptable. Previously, Llyr may be aware that we considered having a fully separate planning inspectorate for Wales in 2015. I've kept that under review, and I'm very grateful that my predecessor did and that I've been able to consider that also. We've expressed concerns that the removal of the post of director for Wales should not happen without any discussion with us. We have to be consulted formally before any proposals are finalised.

But what does that say about the relationship between the Government here, and other partners within the Planning Inspectorate, that such a decision can be considered without there having been adequate consultation with you as Cabinet Secretary and with the Government here? Our party, of course, has been calling for a very long time for an independent inspectorate for Wales. We see, in light of devolution, how the Planning Inspectorate has been evolving in very different directions in Wales, as compared to England, and particularly in light of the Planning (Wales) Act 2015. So, you say that you're keeping this under review, your predecessor said that it was under review, and his predecessor also acknowledged that there was scope to accept that, if the situation were to evolve in different directions, having one inspectorate to oversee two very different regimes wouldn't be sustainable. At what point will you come to a conclusion? If this isn't a clear message of the direction of travel, at what point will you come to the conclusion that the time has come to have an independent planning inspectorate for Wales once and for all? 

Well, I think now that, obviously, the chief executive is currently consulting staff on that restructuring exercise, as part of that programme, they are looking at—as I say, consulting on—the structure. We have to be formally part of that consultation. But, as you say, I think the time certainly is now, isn't it, in answer to the question of when will I do something about it in the way that you want to. I certainly think we need to look at that much more seriously now.  

I think I hear you saying that the time has come for an independent Welsh inspectorate. Could you confirm whether that's the case? 

Well, I said I think the time has come now to look at something that we've been monitoring for the past three years, in light of this consultation. 

Excellent. 

The Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies. 

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, you recently took the decision on the Hendy windfarm to allow permission for that to be granted, despite the local authority's planning committee refusing the application and the planning inspectorate's own appeal inspector refusing the application. As I understand it, Welsh Government officials have been involved with Powys County Council in the zoning of areas that would be acceptable for windfarms to be developed. The unitary development plan or the local development plan up in that neck of the woods clearly identifies certain areas, and Hendy, as I understand it, falls outside of those areas. What confidence can local people have that the system is working on their behalf when you go in and override the local planning committee and also the planning inspectorate, who have stuck to the rules? 

I don't think it's a matter of overriding; I'm satisfied the planning inspector considered the relevant issues, but I disagree with the conclusion. I'm also the Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for energy. We have set renewable energy targets. We have to make sure that we deliver on those targets and, for me, the benefits of the proposal in terms of delivering renewable energy are material considerations that are sufficient to outweigh the identified impacts of the scheme on both the landscape and the visual amenity. 

I think in your reply to me there, Cabinet Secretary, you indicated that the planning inspector did stick to the rules but you disagree with his conclusion. Your department recently, as well, when it comes to shooting on public land, disagreed with the independent report that was commissioned at a cost of £47,000. Can you give us a sense of why the department is going against the evidence, in particular when it comes to this particular application? As you said, the planning inspector stuck to the rules; it was just that you disagreed with those conclusions. What part of the conclusions do you fundamentally disagree with that overrides the planning imperative here that local residents need to have confidence in when these applications come into their areas? 

Well, I mentioned in my original answer to you why I believed the proposals around delivering renewable energy—. Our material considerations—they are sufficient to outweigh the identified impact. So, I think the balance, therefore, weighs in favour of the appeal. But I think, also, wind energy is a key part of Welsh Government's vision for future renewable electricity production, and I think that has to be taken into consideration by decision makers. 

I do take the point that Welsh Government, in fairness—we can disagree or agree with the policy—has had a policy of promoting wind energy, but they've had a policy of promoting wind energy within certain areas and certain zones that are proved for the development of these windfarms. Here, this particular development was outside of that zone and, as I said in my opening question to you, the Government have been involved in identifying those zones and the local authority have engaged in that discussion. How can communities and, in particular, local authorities have confidence that they will not be undermined and will not face huge costs from developers when you take such an arbitrary decision as you have on this particular application, because the planning permission that was refused stuck to the rules, the appeal inspectors, as you said in your own answer, stuck to the rules—the planning guidance that was given—and yet you came in and overrode that? This is causing huge frustration in this part of mid Wales. Other areas of Wales where they see that you will not intervene when you are requested to intervene are completely bemused by the decision that you have taken. So, can you clarify whether it is now open season to develop windfarms the length and breadth of Wales, because, as I said, this application is outside of the zone that you, as a Government, have approved with the local authority? 

It's certainly not open season. I think one of the ways of ensuring the public do have confidence is not to have conflicting policies. And I think one of the things that has become very apparent to me over the two years that I've been in this portfolio is the conflict in policies, and we are taking steps to ensure that that's not the case. 

UKIP spokesperson, Neil Hamilton.

Diolch, Llywydd. Hendy windfarm is being built in an area of outstanding natural beauty. It's perfectly clear from the answer that you've just given, Cabinet Secretary, to Andrew R.T, Davies, that your mind was made up on this even before the planning inspector was appointed, because you've said, in effect, that the Government's policy on renewable energy outweighs any planning considerations. So, what on earth is the point of having planning inquiries in these circumstances because it's evident from your decision that this was merely a charade—a pretence—of taking local opinion into account, when you had no intention of doing so?

It certainly wasn't a charade or a pretence.

I think others will judge your actions rather than your words. But let's look at the decision that you've made and the reason that you've given for it. Yes, I understand that the Government has a commitment to renewable energy, but even if one accepts the Government's view of global warming and its causes, I cannot understand how the desecration of an important beauty spot in mid Wales can be outweighed by renewable energy considerations, because whatever the United Kingdom does in relation to global warming is immediately extinguished by what's happening in the rest of the world. 

In China, for example, they are currently in the process of building another 210 GW of coal-fired power station. Now, at the moment, we are consuming in the United Kingdom 37 GW, so the Chinese are going to add, in the next few years, seven times the entire consumption of electricity in the United Kingdom on a dark and dull day, like today. So, whatever reduction in carbon emissions and whatever contribution that might make to solving the problems of global warming, it's going to make absolutely no difference whatsoever, but it's going to make a vast difference to the people of mid Wales.

I think most people, apart from Neil Hamilton and members of UKIP, do accept that climate change is happening and the reasons for it. I was waiting for you to mention China, because you always mention China when we're talking about renewable energy. You can't just sit back and do nothing. We, in Wales, may be a small nation, but I think we take our proposals to do all we can to mitigate climate change very, very seriously. I was out at the global climate action summit in San Francisco in September. People were looking at us because we are held up as best practice, not just in renewable energy, but in things like waste and recycling. You can't just sit back and say, 'Oh well, China are doing this, so we shouldn't do anything.' I really don't accept that. But I really do wish that you would look at what we're doing in climate change mitigation and join the rest of us in accepting that we have our role to play.

The Welsh Government may be leading, but nobody's following. That's the problem—that's what I'm arguing here. If this was going to make any difference at all and if people were actually going to be impressed by what's happening in Wales in parts of the world where it matters, if you were going to sort out the problems of global warming on the basis of the theories that you espouse, I could understand it, but that isn't happening. You say I always mention China—yes, I do, well, let's mention India as well. In addition to China, India is currently in the process of the construction of 130 GW of coal-fired power stations. So, 130 plus 210, that's 340 GW—that's 10 times the entire British consumption of electricity. Those are just new power stations in construction, fired by coal. So, whatever difference Llandegley Rocks wind turbines are going to make, it is a minute fraction of 1 per cent. It's going to make no difference, but what you've done by your decision, is to wreck and desecrate one of the most beautiful parts of mid Wales. 

You say nobody follows, but at that conference that I just mentioned that was held in September, there were 100 states and regions of which, I would say, most are coming forward with actions similar to Wales's. So, you mentioned India, I shared a platform with the mayor of Delhi who is desperate to do what we're doing in Wales, and is actually achieving that. So, I'm sorry, but you can't just sit back and blame everybody else. You have to take action and you have to show leadership.

Question 3 [OAQ52884] is withdrawn. Question 4—Rhianon Passmore.