The Local Government Settlement for 2019-20

2. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Local Government and Public Services – in the Senedd on 7 November 2018.

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Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

1. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the implications of the local government settlement for 2019/20? OAQ52872

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative

(Translated)

5. What assessment has the Cabinet Secretary made of the adequacy of funding for local authorities in Wales? OAQ52853

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative

(Translated)

8. How much extra funding will be made available to local authorities following the increased funding recently allocated to Wales in the UK Government’s budget? OAQ52874

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:15, 7 November 2018

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. I announced the provisional local government settlement for 2019-20 on 9 October. It is for authorities to determine how they spend this funding, together with their other income from specific grants, council tax and other sources, according to local needs and priorities.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 2:16, 7 November 2018

(Translated)

Gwynedd Council is facing an £11 million cut in light of the fiscal policy of your Government, which will impact on services for the most vulnerable people in my constituency. The Government has announced that an additional £15 million is available for schools and £13 million for social care, but this is restricted by certain conditions. You, like me, have argued consistently for stronger local government and giving more powers to local authorities. Why, then, is this additional funding not reaching the councils through the revenue support grant—the core funding of local authorities, and funding that could be used to safeguard basic services and crucial services at this time of austerity and huge cuts?

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour

(Translated)

All the funding does go towards these core services that you've described. I don't believe that anybody here wants to argue that the funding shouldn't go to schools or social care. I don't believe people want to see that, and that's exactly what we are doing. But, if I could return to the purpose of your question, when you talked about the policy of this Government, this settlement is part of a formula that has been agreed by local government and it's something that we administer jointly with local government.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:17, 7 November 2018

(Translated)

Could I ask you to confirm, Cabinet Secretary, that you wish to group questions 1, 5 and 8?

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Question 5, therefore, Darren Millar.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, people have just listened to your question, and they will be absolutely astonished at the complacency of your response. The Government in the UK, the UK Government, made some £550 million-worth of additional investment, which is coming to Wales as a result of their budget just last week. That means that there are extra resources available to the Welsh Government, and the Welsh Government's own First Minister has said that local government would be at the front of the queue if any additional resources come as a consequence of the budget. So, can you tell us: is any additional resource going to come into your portfolio that you can pass on to local government? And will you also rise to the question of leadership on the revenue support grant settlement, because, quite clearly, you're obfuscating on this particular issue and refusing to actually show some leadership in recognising that that revenue support grant is unfair? When you look at the settlement, it's delivered significant cuts to local authorities in north Wales, significant cuts to local authorities in rural parts of the country, and what appears to be the case is that there's cronyism, because most of the increases are going and the smallest cuts are going to Labour-led local authorities. People aren't stupid, they see the evidence of this year in, year out, when these settlements are presented through this National Assembly.

So, will you show some leadership? And what extra resources are local government going to get as a result of the bonanza of £550 million that has been awarded to Wales as a result of the UK Government's budget?

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:19, 7 November 2018

Presiding Officer, the Member for Clwyd West is right, people aren't stupid, and they'll see through his shouting and his bluster. They'll see the reality of what austerity has done, not just in local government, but to other parts of the public sector as well. And let me say this—let me say this—he talks specifically about the local government settlement in Wales. When we made that announcement on 9 October, the University of Cambridge also published some data on local government on that date. What they showed was that, in Wales and Scotland, local government had been protected by the Governments in both those countries. In England, where the Conservatives have the opportunity to take these decisions, local government has been cut by 26 per cent—26 per cent. So, when he and his party come here with their crocodile tears telling us about what is happening in local government, I say to him, 'Physician, heal thyself'—you go back to your Government in London, you go back there and talk to them about austerity. You go there—[Interruption.] You go there—[Interruption.] You go there—[Interruption.] You can shout as much as you like; I've got time on my side. You go there. You go there and you tell them about the impacts of austerity on people, and I'll tell you, when you do that, that you're doing the right thing. But, up until then, don't come here making allegations that you cannot sustain about matters you do not understand. 

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 2:20, 7 November 2018

Cabinet Secretary, I have recently raised, on behalf of my constituents and all those working in local government across Wales, concerns in this Chamber about the funding settlement for our local authorities. Pre UK Government budget, there was strong condemnation from our local authority leaders and the WLGA itself about your lack of understanding about the essential moneys needed to support our social care, schools, housing and mental health support. Then you compounded this problem by likening our council leaders to Oliver Twist, wanting more. Your comments were a staggering insult and a betrayal to those working in our hard-working, front-line services. They were offensive and, frankly, they should be withdrawn.

Now, given the additional £370 million—. And, yes, forget the word 'austerity' now and stop hiding behind it—£370 million is coming, courtesy of the UK Government, for spend on public services. Why can't you guarantee that this funding will go where it's actually needed, to fund our schools, to fund our social services, to fund our housing and to fund our mental health support? But, most of all, will you, Cabinet Secretary, for once show some humility and apologise for those dreadful comments likening our local authorities to Oliver Twist?

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:22, 7 November 2018

The Member for Aberconwy says she's speaking on behalf of local government employees and workers. I don't know which trade union you're a member of. [Interruption.] I'm a member of Unison, which isn't just the biggest union in Wales but also the biggest union in the public sector in Wales. Let me tell you, when I talk to colleagues in Unison—[Interruption.] When I talk to colleagues in Unison, what they don't do—what they don't do—is say to me, 'Do you know, Alun? What you should be doing is following the same approach as is taken by the Conservatives in England.'

Do you know what else I hear—[Interruption.] What else I hear—[Interruption.] And what else I hear from Conservative council leaders across Wales is that they don't want us to follow Conservative policies either. The only people who want us to follow Conservative policies are the people sitting behind me. Their council leaders don't want to see the same cuts in Wales as we're seeing across the border in England. They don't want to see Conservative policies implemented here. The only people who do are the Conservative group.

It's time that the Conservatives were honest, were absolutely honest, with people about the impact of what austerity is doing to people. I can understand that they don't want us to keep coming back to it. I can understand that they don't want us to talk about austerity, but, if she understood the UK budget, if she read the UK budget, she would know this as well—that spending on most public services will be reducing and not increasing, and, as time goes by, this time next year, there'll be more money spent in supporting local government in Wales than there will be across the whole of England. That's what Conservative policy leads to. 

Photo of Mike Hedges Mike Hedges Labour 2:23, 7 November 2018

The Cabinet Secretaries covering areas such as transportation, education and the economy can provide funding to local government to spend in the areas of their responsibility. What financial support from other Cabinet members, out of their budgets, has the Cabinet Secretary asked for to support local government, which is in desperate need?

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:24, 7 November 2018

Let me say this: the point that's made by the Member for Swansea East is well made, because, of course, local government isn't just receiving the funding through the RSG but is also receiving funding from other elements of the Welsh budget. Others have spoken already—I think Siân Gwenllian from Plaid Cymru spoke about the £15 million that's going into education. That of course is also going through local government. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services and the Minister for social services have also made significant statements on the funding going through local government to support social services and to support regional working. So, there are significant sums of money that are going into local government that go beyond the RSG and, in total, I suspect that that will be over £70 million in the next year.