6. What assessment has the First Minister made of the recommendations contained in the Federation of Small Businesses report on the future of Welsh towns? OAQ52901

I think the work they've done is very useful and it's a very useful addition to our existing knowledge in this area. We will, of course, consider the recommendations carefully in light of our current initiatives to support town centres.

Thank you, First Minister. I agree with you: I think the work they've commissioned gives a solid evidence base, which is the kind of deep work that can of course lead to positive changes in Government policy and action. Let's remember that over 1 million people live in Wales's towns. We hear lots about city deals, but how do you feel a potential mid Wales growth deal can empower those who live in the towns of mid Wales to identify and promote their towns? The report that was commissioned also talks about ideas coming from the grass roots upwards. So, how do you believe that a potential mid Wales growth deal can support that aim?

I think that's important. If we look at the bids process of business improvement districts, they have been led by businesses in respective towns. Any growth deal must be targeted specifically to the needs and requirements of the area in which that growth deal is based. So, certainly, as a growth deal is developed, it's hugely important to have the maximum amount of engagement with retail businesses in town centres and all those in the rural economy.

First Minister, you'll be aware that the report shows clearly—and, of course, we already knew this—that empty shops detract from the overall performance of town centres and deter new businesses from locating themselves there. You will probably know that the Plaid Cymru-led Carmarthenshire County Council has made a big investment in Llanelli, buying shops, breaking them into smaller units that people can then afford to rent, and turning the upper levels of the shops into residential properties that also bring people in to live in the town centre. What further support can the Welsh Government provide to local authorities to enable them to continue to respond creatively to the crisis that is faced by many of our town centres?

I think we have to accept that we are not likely to see the same number of retail units in towns in the future. If I look at my own home town of Bridgend, there are many, many units that are empty and will probably never be filled. Some of them have been empty for many, many years. So, what then should happen? Well, a lot of them may be turned into residential units, to ensure there's a better mix in town centres. In my home town, it's been happening for 30 years or more. 

How do we then create more vibrant towns that are mixed in terms of their provision—some of it residential, some of it business, some of it will be retail, some of it will be restaurants, bars—to create that buzz in the town, not just in the day but in the evening as well? I think also it's important that consideration is given to when shops open in town centres, because, of course, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. doesn't suit most people any more, and, unless you have a very big footfall in a town centre because there are offices there, then you will lose out.

But, in terms of what the Government is doing, we have our targeted regeneration investment programme. That means capital funding of £100 million across Wales over three years to support regionally prioritised regeneration projects in town centres. We have the European-funded Building for the Future programme, which is providing £54 million to acquire, refurbish or redevelop unused buildings and land within or close to town or city centres across west Wales and the Valleys. And, of course, our town centre loan scheme has provided £27.5 million since 2014 to bring empty, underused sites and premises in town centres back into use. 

First Minister, when I speak to residents up and down the Cynon Valley, there's great passion about wanting to see our town centres rejuvenated. But, at the same time, that's often set against a reluctance by local people to actually shop locally. And when I speak to them about the reasons for that, one of the things that's most often cited is the lack of diversity of businesses on our high streets. Now, clearly, that's quite a difficult interface between the public and private sectors, but what is the Welsh Government doing to try and encourage local entrepreneurs to create that more diverse offer on our high streets?

I think part of the solution to this lies in retailers working together and, as the Member has said, creating a reason for people to go into town centres. Town centres are shut, often, by 5.30pm. If people are not working in those town centres, in reality they're shut all week. So thought needs to be given to opening hours, I believe, in order to make those town centres more accessible in the future. 

She mentioned her own constituency. I know that underused sites and premises in town centres are being brought back into use, and Aberdare is one of those areas that's been identified for that support. Aberdare, of course, is also one of the 10 additional BIDs that are being developed as a result of our recently announced further funding of £262,000. But, of course, what's important here is the money is made available for local businesses to decide how best to promote themselves. That's the key to it. We don't know how to do it. They will have ideas on the ground. That's why we wanted to make sure that they were fully engaged and have been from the start.