Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:12 pm on 14 November 2018.
Diolch, Llywydd. Thanks to everyone who contributed to an interesting debate. If I can go through the contributions, Andrew R.T. Davies was telling us about some of the problematic aspects of the motion in that a lot of Welsh livestock actually crosses the border and goes over to England for processing. The Conservatives, in their manifesto in Wales, supported the installation of CCTV in all Welsh slaughterhouses, which goes along with part of our motion today, But he did point out that a crucial aspect is going to be funding to stop more closures of relatively small local abattoirs, and we share the concern. We agree that there does need to be a co-ordinated response, with the Government helping to fund the abattoirs to allow that kind of installation to take place.
Andrew also cited the large improvements in animal welfare that have taken place over the last 20 years and improvements, also, in labelling. But he did raise issues over the veracity of some of the labelling, because of the large number of different labels that are now in usage, so that does, perhaps, raise question marks over how far the labelling can be trusted. Of course, Andrew did cite one specific example where something was actually imported from Thailand.
He does want the Welsh Government to better regulate—the Conservatives do want the Welsh Government to better regulate—puppy and kitten farming, which, as Andrew noted, is prevalent in west Wales, particularly the puppy farming. But he pointed out that we do need the capacity within the regulatory bodies to ensure effective enforcement of any regulations or bans that are brought in.
Neil McEvoy was speaking particularly of the problem of puppy farming. He related the poor living conditions that are often experienced by many of the dogs—and he also mentioned kittens—that are involved in this trade, and another issue being that the welfare of the animals is often poor, because of the need for constant breeding.
David Rowlands—my UKIP colleague—he concentrated on the issue of live animal exports, and he pointed out that, despite the European Commission regulations, there are still harrowing journeys faced by many animals that are being exported. He noted, or he opined, that even if we regulate in this area, there are still going to be issues that do arise, and the best solution is to simply ban the live animal exports.
Llyr Gruffydd raised many issues with our motion. Of course, he made the points very clearly. He raised the risk that Brexit itself could undermine animal welfare, and he raised the issue that a large proportion of UK-domiciled vets working in abattoirs are actually non-UK citizens—I believe a lot of them are Spanish—so this is an issue that we do take on board, and we will have to address that. CCTV has a good part to play, Llyr said, but he did point out that small slaughterhouses require funding, dovetailing with the point that Andrew R.T. Davies made, so we kind of agree on this point that Government assistance is going to be required to help the small local slaughterhouses if we are going to move towards more CCTV installation. Llyr also pointed out that there is a lot of public support for clearer labelling, again dovetailing with Andrew R.T. Davies's points, and he also supports Welsh Government action on puppy sales, which I think, possibly, everyone is maybe agreeing with.
Lesley Griffiths, the Minister, asserted the need for strong animal welfare standards. That was very good to hear, and I'm sure she is committed to that. She did point out that her Government is against the mandatory installation of CCTV in slaughterhouses. Her words were, It's 'premature'. 'Premature', yes. She said it was 'premature'. She did make the point that there is a need to work closely with food businesses if we are going to move forward in this area. There has, of course, been Welsh Government funding already, which she mentioned. She also stated that non-stun slaughter doesn't take place in Wales. There is also the need to work on the brand values, which she's working on. Again, this relates to the labelling issue, which several people have mentioned. Again, she stated that the Government is also supportive of a ban on third-party puppy sales. So, I suppose that aspect, that amendment, is something that perhaps everyone can support, so maybe we can move forward with that as soon as possible. Thanks again to everyone for taking part in today's debate. Diolch yn fawr iawn.