Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:10 pm on 20 November 2018.
Can I thank the leader of the opposition for his comments? He asks what the issue is with regard to the withdrawal agreement. It's longevity, really. It seems to me that the agreement kicks the can down the road. Where will we be in December 2020? Will we be in exactly the same situation again? We've already had two years, and here we find ourselves in a situation where the agreement is not permanent. Our position is quite simple, and that is: we want to see full and unfettered access to the single market and to remain in the customs union, and anything that is short of that clearly is not something that we could agree to.
He is right to say that businesses and others have cautiously welcomed the deal, but that, I believe, is because they think the alternative is no deal at all, which nobody wants. So, I can imagine why people would want to support this deal for fear that there's nothing else on the table. I believe it is possible to look again at, certainly, the political declaration, and to be more certain about the way forward. That means making a commitment to the customs union and to the single market.
I have to say, I think the Prime Minister's painted herself in a corner on this. She needn't have run the general election last year on the basis of putting before the British people the vision of a hard-ish Brexit, which they didn't accept, and she has found it difficult to get out of the corner that she has found herself in. But I have to say, he makes reference to my tone. My tone is as of nothing compared to those of his own colleagues in London. His own colleagues in London have openly called for the Prime Minister to resign. They have been openly abusive, really, actually, in terms of the way they've described her. The reality is that I have been, I think, gentle compared to the tone that's been adopted by Conservative politicians, and this is the problem, isn't it?
Yes, there are those in my party that take a different view. There are some in my party in Westminster who are Brexiteers. There are not many of them, but they're there. The problem is that the divisions in the Conservative Party are so vast that it's very difficult to see how there can be any unity in that party around a vision for Brexit. He says 'playing politics'. The worry I have is: where does it end? There's no leadership because there can't be. We have a Prime Minister who's lost a lot of Ministers—Cabinet Ministers who've resigned. We have a number in her party who don't support her own policy. In those circumstances, he says that leadership in the Welsh Government is weak. Well, we can only point at London and say, 'Where is the leadership in London, given the circumstances that exist there?'
We have always been constant in what we've called for. We laid out our vision two years ago as to what we wanted. We do work with the UK Government; I will single out David Lidington as somebody who it's possible to work with and to discuss issues with. There is a relationship there. It's not consistent, because other UK Government departments see things in a slightly different light.
He mentions that there is a need for a bridge. That may be right, but a bridge to what? At the moment, we don't know where that bridge leads, and that is the problem. Two years ago, there was talk of constructing a bridge and, now, there's still talk of constructing a bridge. We don't know what the final destination actually is. Listening to the views of the business community, their view is quite simply this: they want certainty. And whilst this might provide a temporary level of certainty, it doesn't provide the certainty that they need, particularly with regard to their ability to access skilled labour.
As far as the agriculture industry is concerned, well, there are many issues there that need to be resolved. Market access is key; without market access, sheep farming, in particular, can't survive in Wales. The UK market simply isn't big enough to support the UK's own sheep meat industry, so it's not simply a question of supporting farmers; it's ensuring that they have access to their market as well.
The same is true of fishing. It's one thing to have sufficient access, as you would see it, to your own coastal waters, but when you're utterly dependent on exporting the fish, you have to ensure that you've got a market for those fish as well. It would be no good for the UK to be able to land more fish, even if that were possible, and I don't believe that's possible because of the low level of fish stocks. The reality is that most of those fish would have no market, so that has to be looked at as well.
He mentioned the issue of the hard border. Work is being carried out through a ports group as to how that would move forward. I have to say to him, it would be Pembroke Dock rather than Fishguard that would be the emphasis in terms of freight. Fishguard tends to take people, Pembroke Dock tends to take freight and Holyhead takes both.
He says that nothing's been done to improve the road. Well, the Robeston Wathen bypass is there and the Llanddowror bypass is there, of course, heading off towards Pembroke Dock in the other direction. So, there have been road improvements there as well, but that's not the issue. The issue is not what happens on those roads, it's what happens at the ports.
If we have a situation where the UK Government decides to take a heavy hand in terms of customs, that will lead to delays and that will mean the need for accommodation at those ports rather than further on down the roads. We don't know what that will look like. We don't know what level of checks will be implemented. We assume there'd be no passport control because the common travel area has been preserved, but will there be an element of customs checks, how will they be carried out, will they be random, will they be heavy? None of these questions have been answered, so it's very difficult to prepare our ports for a scenario that's not yet clear. But, as I said, there is a ports working group that has been set up with the UK Government to look at this.
In terms of preparing for withdrawal, we're already on track for doing that. I've said before that a 'no deal' Brexit is not something that can be prepared for. It can't be militated against. It can't be seen as one option amongst many. It's a disastrous outcome and we have, through the EU transition fund and through working with businesses and with our farmers, put in place what needs to be done in order to promote Wales in the future, to give Wales more markets in the future by expanding our overseas offices. But of course, ultimately, if we cannot get the trading relationship right with our closest, biggest market—which will always be our closest, biggest market—then we will not get it right with any other market.