I enjoyed reading the report. There were parts of it I didn't understand; I'm really referring to the contemporary arts part. And the reason I was particularly interested in it was because it does seem to me that there is an uncertainty within it, and the conflict, I suppose, between the idea as to whether you look at the traditional centre of excellence—the visual one, the one that's aimed at tourists, the one aimed at profiling and international profiling, and so on—as opposed to the alternative as to how you actually develop the sites that are around and co-ordinate those into almost a comprehensive version of that. And to some extent, there are, of course, realistic issues in terms of capital, in terms of funding and so on. 

I'm quite interested in the hub approach, and I notice that what the report says—it refers to

'What will make a difference to communities, to artists and to the existing visual arts infrastructure?'

Now, if that's the case, the reason why I'm particularly interested is because we have a number of growing areas within Wales where there are real vacuums in terms of art provision. I mean, we have Pontypridd—I obviously would talk about my own constituency—but there are others, and Pontypridd leading up to the Valleys as a whole, where if you look at the map of the locations of provision of facilities, and so on, there is a real dearth of them within certain areas, yet we do have the availability of very substantial buildings that, imaginatively used, could actually be used. So, the issue that concerns me a little bit is the clarity as to where we're going and the conflict between the various options that are involved there. I was in Kiev at the weekend, and there's a big derelict arsenal building, which obviously stored ammunition, that has been turned into a massive warehouse of contemporary art. It was absolutely fascinating as an example of how you actually take an industrial building. So, when you talk about Port Talbot, there are many big, unused industrial buildings in Port Talbot, where you have that infrastructure, but that capacity to actually base it and have people to engage with it there.

If the intention is to really make the arts more available and engage in terms of a facility for communities and have community engagement, then the model has to be slightly different, and I think we do need to come up and look at the areas where there are these vacuums, which I would really take from Pontypridd through to Porth, all the way through the Valleys, where there are some tremendous buildings but there is actually no real provision. The provision is located all around. So, perhaps the Minister, when we have the summation in this debate and we have the references, it would be helpful to have some clarity as to where the thinking is going from Government now as to what the preferred options might be and how that sort of engagement can actually take place. I think it's very valuable when I see what is happening within Pontypridd at the moment—the actual regeneration of the town—but the fact that there is really quite a lack of provision in respect of the arts. There are certain areas and certain items of excellence, and it's a surprise to me that a number of the artists that exist are really asking for assistance to be able to have things within Cardiff, because that's where facilities are, and the facilities locally are very limited.

So, I think that's the contribution that I would make in that, but I certainly look forward to what I think is really a very important debate on the cultural life, the quality of life and the well-being of our communities and how the arts can actually serve that.