7. Plaid Cymru Debate: M4 Corridor Decision

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:32 pm on 28 November 2018.

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Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 4:32, 28 November 2018

I'm not aware that such advice has been sought or taken. I'm sure it would be, though, if we found ourselves in that position. As far as I'm aware, the candidates—. Well, certainly one of them hasn't made an announcement of that sort. That would be a matter for the lawyers to decide, and we'd have to take appropriate advice if that happens.

But, as I say, it's a complex process. There are very distinct legal parameters for what can and can't be taken into account when you undertake the statutory process. This is a process that will be subject to appeal and judicial review, almost certainly, and therefore the lawyers are very keen that the exact provisions—what is relevant, what is not relevant, what should be taken into account or should not be taken into account—are set out for the First Minister in making the decision and in reading the report.

As I say, at this point in time, it is still possible that that would happen with this First Minister and that we would schedule a debate for next week. As soon as I'm aware of whether that is or isn't possible, then obviously, Llywydd, I will be letting you know, as we discussed in Business Committee, and also business managers across the Chamber know. That is the intention at the moment. As I say, the complexity of the process means that we have to be very contained about the way that we do it.

However, if it is not possible for this First Minister to make that process—. And I'd just like to say, for the record, that the First Minister remains the First Minister until he resigns and isn't the First Minister; his powers don't diminish in some scale over that time. He retains all the powers of the First Minister right up until the second he resigns. So, just to be clear, legally, there is no diminution of power as that goes ahead. But if that is not possible, then I will be recommending to the next Government and the new First Minister, as outgoing leader of the house, that that Government should honour the commitment to bring forward a debate in Government time for the Assembly to have its say. I fully expect that the incoming Government will do so, and the reason I expect that, Llywydd, is that this is not an easy issue. The choices before us, as many Members have set out, are very hard indeed. The M4 is no ordinary project, and there have been many voices expressing strong views on both sides of the argument.

In setting out these steps today, I believe the Welsh Government has balanced some important processes and principles, and the Welsh Government needs to follow the formal legal process in relation to deciding whether to make the statutory Orders for the project. The Assembly will then express its view on the project. That view will, of course, be known by the next Government if it finds itself in the position of making decisions on whether to implement the scheme by entering into the construction contract. Many Members today have set out parameters by which they think that decision might be made. We therefore support the Plaid motion today on the basis that it acknowledges that, if the statutory Orders are made, it is still within the prerogative of the future Government to determine whether it should enter into a contract for the scheme to be constructed within the parameters of all of the things mentioned by all Members who have contributed to the debate today. Diolch.