Group 1: Duty to provide funded childcare (Amendments 4, 4A, 4B, 20)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:00 pm on 5 December 2018.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 5:00, 5 December 2018

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm delighted to help open proceedings here on the Stage 3 committee for this important Bill. I've responded to calls from scrutiny committees—the Children, Young People and Education Committee and the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee—for a duty on the face of the Bill, and I've duly brought forward amendment 4.

To give effect to this duty, the Welsh Ministers will need to state the detail around the number of hours of childcare and the number of weeks of provision in the regulations made under section 1. These regulations will be subject to the affirmative procedure. In practice, Government amendment 4 achieves exactly the same purposes as amendments 4A and 4B, but without the need for primary legislation to be amended by regulations, should it be necessary in future to vary the amount of childcare to be secured under section 1. Amendments 4A and 4B are seeking to nail things down on the face of the Bill.

I don't think there's any doubt out there about how committed this Government is to delivering on this manifesto commitment. We are already discharging our duty in 14 local authorities across Wales. If we can avoid the need to amend primary legislation by regulations and achieve the same purpose, I think that's what we should do. And, for this reason, we will not be supporting amendments 4A and 4B, and I would urge Members to support instead Government amendment 4, which achieves exactly the same purpose. 

Amendment 20 seeks to define what we mean by 'childcare' on the face of the Bill, by reference to other legislation. Now, we had a very useful discussion, which I'm thankful for, during Stage 2 proceedings, and I also met subsequently with colleagues Suzy Davies and Janet Finch-Saunders in early November to discuss this and related issues. What we mean by 'childcare' for the purposes of the offer is regulated childcare, which encompasses a wide range of different types of provision, subject to a set of national minimum standards, and which are regulated and inspected by Care Inspectorate Wales or the Office for Standards in Education, Children's Services and Skills. We already have definitions of 'childcare' in other pieces of legislation, so it is simply unnecessary to have this level of detail in the Bill itself.

But I agree that it is important that the link is made so it is clear what we are talking about when we talk of 'childcare'. Now, the framework administrative scheme, which I have shared with the responsible committee, does make this connection explicit, and in there, we do define what we mean by 'childcare'. The benefit of having the definition in there is that we can then more easily accommodate any changes should that be necessary in future whilst also ensuring that we are being transparent about the meaning of things. Thank you, Presiding Officer.