Group 1: Duty to provide funded childcare (Amendments 4, 4A, 4B, 20)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:13 pm on 5 December 2018.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 5:13, 5 December 2018

No, no, the definitions of 'childcare' are actually correct, and what flows from this currently-being-piloted childcare offer, that definition is the basis of the 'childcare' definition that we use. And it also then has guidance that is supplementary to this, which has been shared with the committee as well, which shows where there are any additional costs, for example, what the guidance says around those. But childcare is childcare, and it's very clearly understood and we don't need to redefine it on the front of this Bill.

So, look, in bringing forward amendment 4, we've provided greater clarity and certainty about the Government's commitment to meet its manifesto commitment, and I welcome the fact that you won't be pushing the other amendments related to that because we're trying to achieve the same thing here. And let's not forget that the Welsh Ministers will be required, as I say, to set out the detail of the offer in detail, in terms of the number of hours, how many weeks, et cetera, in regulation.

So, amendment 4, alongside the other Government amendment, which builds into the Bill, Suzy and Janet, a requirement to review the effectiveness of the legislation, means that this Government is fully committed not only to the manifesto commitment, but also to transparency about the effectiveness of this offer as well.

And one important point, Llywydd, just to reflect on at the outset of these Stage 3 proceedings, is that it is important to reflect again on the purpose of this legislation. Its purpose is to give the legislative mechanism we need to engage HM Revenue and Customs in administering the application and eligibility-checking process for the offer. It isn't about the offer per se, although I recognise that Members understandably have focused a great deal on the wider offer more broadly throughout the scrutiny stages, and we've been happy to address those issues. And as the responsible Minister, I've tried in every way possible to address those broader issues.

But, in respect of this set of amendments, I would urge Members in light of my comments to reject those other amendments—although if the Member is choosing not to push them, I think that would be excellent because we're trying to achieve the same aim here—and to support Government amendment 4 as the amendment that strikes that right balance between providing greater clarity and certainty, and giving this and future administrations discretion over how that duty is defined in the future.