We have had many discussions on exactly this point. I completely agree with the Howard League for Penal Reform. I've been a fellow traveller of theirs for many, many years. And that's exactly on the point of the discussion that we've been having. We are very keen to have the criminal justice system devolved as fast as possible, including the probation services. Probation services are absolutely essential to go with that, and this deflection from prison that we're talking about, you absolutely have to have those services in place and, actually, you have to have pre-criminal justice system provision in place, which is why we're looking to strengthen the youth service provision as well, because it's a set of things that go with this.

We need to ensure that fewer children go into care as a result of their mother's imprisionment for something, as I say, no man would ever go to prison for, and that, where they have got to go to prison—or be in a secure facility, rather—they are in small, specially-built, women-centred ones close to where they live. Not just one in Wales, because that's no good if you live anywhere other than where it happens to be, but a network of those centres, exactly as Leanne Wood outlines, so that we can make sure that we get the best possible outcome not just for the women themselves, but for their children and families, who we know are impacted hugely by the wrong outcome. And I know the Cabinet Secretary—. I'm stealing his thunder a bit, because we've had this discussion—you know, we're at one on this. We completely agree with that agenda, and that's where we're trying to go with this.