I welcome the opportunity to contribute in the debate this afternoon. In the environment committee, we have looked at this particular issue, taking evidence from Dŵr Cymru and other organisations over the engineering problems that this waste issue causes, but also the financial problems as well, and the public awareness. Lots of these blockages quite clearly happen under our feet in the sewers that go right the way through our cities, our towns and our villages, but then it's the engineering works that we see going on that very often are the first time we realise there's a problem.

And there is much that we can do, and we will be supporting the UKIP motion this afternoon. We'll be supporting the Government's amendment and Plaid Cymru's amendment 2, but we will be abstaining on amendment 3 because sometimes we do just reach for taxation levers. I appreciate there are many good examples that do show that taxation and penalising people can actually have that change that we require, but we do think there's quite a bit more work still to do on that. Again, I do appreciate the amendment does say 'explore', but in the field, in particular, of people with disabilities, for example, and other special cases, I do think there's a need to understand more about their demands and their needs when we're talking about wet wipes, because if you go back 10, 15 years ago, most people probably didn't think of this as a problem at all, as such—it was part of everyday life.

But much like the recycling agenda that we've seen across the country—. I visited a recycling depot on Monday, and it was just fascinating to see how that recycling process is undertaken and how there is virtually nothing that can't be recycled now. There is an end use for it, whether it be black bin bags going into energy use, or whether it be the blue bin bags, in this case—it was in Carmarthenshire, this particular site was—and all the contents that were in that bag were to put to some form of recyclable commodity that had a value to it. If you'd said to someone 20 years ago about the recycling agenda, they'd have looked at you completely dumbfounded that you could turn that waste into value and, actually, we just chuck it all in the bin and someone comes along once a week, picks it up, takes it away and it someone else's problem. In fact, as you came in—[Interruption.] I think John's watching the football, is he? Who's winning, John? [Laughter.] [Interruption.] Get in the support. Actually, it's not quite five o'clock yet, and I don't think a certain individual's on their feet in the House of Commons yet. They will be shortly. [Laughter.]

But going back to the agenda item that we're talking about here, it is really important that we do make progress because this is a big, big issue when it comes to costs that have to be diverted into re-engineering our sewage and dirty water system when that valuable resource could be put into many other beneficial uses. There's only so much you can spend in the waste water treatment system, and if that money's going into something that we as consumers can make a difference over, then surely that makes perfect sense.

Plastic bags—[Interruption.] I know it's a brilliant speech John, but—