The next item is the short debate, if I could urge everyone to leave the Chamber quietly and quickly.

Please leave the Chamber quietly. I call the short debate, to be proposed by Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. It’s a pleasure to move the short debate this evening. I’m just checking to see if John has got his phone on or off for my last contribution. It’s a pleasure also to give a minute of my time to Angela Burns and Bethan at the end of my contribution. And to highlight the importance of this debate, we will be having a short video presentation at some point, when the TVs come on. But, first and foremost, let me apologise to Members for keeping them away from their Christmas parties—I know most groups are heading off for their Christmas parties tonight.

However, I’m delighted to bring forward this rather timely debate, particularly ahead of the festive period when we so often are reminded of the Dogs Trust's famous slogan that a dog is for life, not just for Christmas. For those of you who are unaware of the Lucy’s law campaign, this was inspired by Lucy, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. She was a victim of the puppy farming system and used for breeding for many years with no regard for her health or welfare. The driving force behind Lucy’s law has been to call for an immediate ban on the sale of puppies by pet shops and other third-party commercial dealers who participate in this trade to make a profit. Third-party sellers are dealers, people who do not breed the dogs and kittens and who operate as middlemen or women between the breeders and the buying public. Lucy’s law has been driven by a passionate group of campaigners and has captured the support and attention of people right across the country, including politicians and many high-profile celebrities, such as Ricky Gervais, Brian May and Rachel Riley.

As a dog lover—I have two back at home, at the ranch in the Vale of Glamorgan—it is a campaign that has certainly captured my attention, and I'm so pleased to be associated with it, and also to have met Linda Goodman and the C.A.R.I.A.D., Care And Respect Includes All Dogs, group. I’d also like to pay credit to all the volunteers who have been involved in this grass-roots campaign, who have worked so tirelessly in getting this issue on the agenda for so many. Indeed, the success of this campaign is demonstrated in the petition that is before the National Assembly’s Petitions Committee, which has secured a very significant number of signatures. Over 9,000 people have put pen to paper so far, and we were of course fortunate to have the C.A.R.I.A.D. launch here at the Senedd back last year.

Lucy’s law has undoubtedly captured the hearts of so many people across the nation, and this short video for Members provides a little insight into the campaign as we seek to stop kittens and dogs from being used as breeding machines here in Wales. [Interruption.] As if by magic.

An audio-visual presentation was shown to accompany the debate. 

Audio-visual presentation.

Suzy Davies took the Chair.

Regrettably, Wales is now renowned as a hotspot for some of these despicable practices, with a significant number of puppy farms situated in the counties of Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. In fact, rural south-west Wales has the biggest concentration in the whole of the United Kingdom of commercial dog breeders, and it is a sadly widely known fact that it has been churning out puppies in terrible conditions. Irresponsible breeders contribute to a chaotic start in life for many pets, where output volume is more often prioritised over welfare, and this leads to serious health problems and a lack of socialisation for puppies and kittens. Dogs have a critical socialisation period between five and 12 weeks, and many struggle to cope with life as a pet if they have not been introduced to the experiences in this time, a requirement that is very difficult to meet within a shop environment.

The commercial market in kittens differs slightly to puppies. The vast majority of third-party sales of kittens occur from physical high-street pet shops. Cat breeding, unlike dog breeding, is not regulated, and pet shops can be an inappropriate environment for kittens. Young kittens sold in pet shops are not always provided with adequate space, an appropriate environment or pen design, a comfortable temperature, or receive the necessary veterinary care and enrichment.

Like nearly every other aspect of modern life, the internet has in many ways fuelled this horrific trade, and has become the shop window of choice for advertising of young pets to be rehomed to potential owners. In 2017 alone, nearly 35,000 adverts for dogs and cats were posted, therefore unlicensed and therefore uninspected traders can sell puppies, kittens and other animals without any checks. The Lucy's law campaign has vigorously lobbied politicians of all colours for the implementation of a ban, and its aims go some way to eliminating a market that depends and is sustained on puppy farms right across the UK, Ireland and Europe. Such a ban would help to eliminate the inevitable physical and psychological damage caused by selling puppies and kittens hundreds of miles away from the place of birth. A ban on commercial third-party sales would amount to a legal requirement that only breeders would be able to sell puppies in the course of a business. It would of course not impact on non-commercial activities, including the rehoming of puppies and kittens through charities and sanctuaries, as they are not done for profit. Nothing would change there.

And, as a Conservative, I was of course delighted to see the UK Government lead the way on this, firstly back in February with its initial call for evidence, and secondly in August, when Michael Gove announced a consultation on the proposed banning of the commercial third-party sale of puppies and kittens. Obviously, with animal welfare devolved as a responsibility to this institution, this announcement only related to England, and it is vital that Wales follows suit. I was therefore pleased to hear the Cabinet Secretary commit a couple of weeks ago to the launch of a similar consultation. This was a welcome move and it is imperative that we now follow this through, because animal welfare is one of those issues that continually rears its head in Members' postbags. Indeed, there's barely a period in the year where some significant issue regarding animal welfare isn't captured by the public's imagination, and, as an institution, we are now in a place where we can act upon those concerns and tackle them through the implementation of legislation.

The Assembly, and, in turn, the Welsh Government, now enjoys a vast array of responsibilities and powers in regard to legislation and regulation in this particular field, and particularly when you compare it to where we were some 20 years ago. As an Assembly, and as a Government, it is imperative Wales capitalises and uses these levers efficiently, proactively and imaginatively to ensure our reputation as an animal-friendly nation is protected. Because let's be honest—there is a problem with activities such as puppy farming here in Wales. Indeed, a ban on such grotesque activity makes perfect sense from an animal protection point of view, and would be a stark improvement on the current situation, with far more people and groups able to enforce a ban—not just local authorities, but also the RSPCA and the police. The enforcement of a ban is backed by numerous animal groups, such as the Dogs Trust and Cats Protection, and should prove far easier and far cheaper than a licensing system that is strangled with bureaucracy and a lack of resource.

Opponents of this course of action often cite that this ban would force the trade to go underground, but I have to say that is folly. The idea that prospective loving pet owners would embark on a trawl of the dark web is extremely far-fetched, and is in a different sphere altogether to the comparisons made to those individuals who seek guns, drugs, ammunition on the deep, dark web. In my view, a ban is an essential first step towards ending this practice of farming dogs or kittens for profit, with little or no regard for their welfare or their fitness as family companions. Stress, increased risk of disease, poor breeding practices and irresponsible selling tactics are all associated with methods of third-party selling. And the importance of taking such action was reinforced to me on a recent visit the Cardiff Dogs Home. It is, of course, an award-winning dogs home, but you couldn't help be touched by the faces of those animals seeking companionship and a loving home. Indeed, on this visit, I was informed that there are currently in the region of 9 million dogs across the United Kingdom—more than sufficient to supply the demand. There is simply no need for this additional commercial activity.

And to close, for me, the implementation of Lucy's law in Wales is vital if we are to address the damage that has been done to the reputation of Wales, which continues to be acknowledged as the puppy-farming hub of the United Kingdom. That's wrong, and it serves as an unwelcome strain on our great nation of animal lovers.

A ban on third party sales will ensure the nation's much loved pets get the right start in life and that people who have complete disregard for pet welfare will no longer be able to profit from this miserable trade. I pay tribute to Lucy's law's campaign, spearheaded by Pup Aid, C.A.R.I.A.D. and the canine action group—Canine Action UK—who have fought so tirelessly in this quest.

Wales should lead the way on animal welfare. There is nothing stopping us becoming the most animal friendly nation in the world. And as a first step in this crusade, I implore all Members to support this noble and noteworthy campaign.

Thank you to Andrew R.T. Davies for bringing this important debate and for the significance of Lucy's law, which is one of the main reasons why I was calling for an animal abuse register for Wales, because we know that we want to try and ensure that animals are protected, and I think this would have been a clear way forward, but the Cabinet Secretary was minded not to carry forth that idea. I've met with Cats Protection recently, and they're calling for regulation of cat-breeding activity or the number of litters bred annually, to ensure they are bred with good welfare standards. Some pedigree cats being bred have a high incidence of genetic disease, and a preventative strategy here in Wales would ensure that we promote cat welfare, and we would then promote positive actions in this particular area.

It was astonishing to hear that some pet shops encourage irresponsible breeding because they advertise that they buy kittens and, therefore, people are actually breeding kittens to sell for remuneration. So, I think that these types of activities need to end and we need to support organisations like the Cats Protection and others that Andrew R.T. Davies has already mentioned here today, to support animal welfare here in Wales and to ensure that we do the best that we can for animals here in Wales.

I'd like to thank Andrew for bringing forward this debate. Our friendship with dogs has run across millennia and this is no way to treat them. In my constituency of Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire, I am sad to say that puppy breeding is at an all-time high, and I have made it my business to get down close and personal with some of the people who do this. And I've been to puppy farms where the owner will actually say that they think they're doing a good job. And as a pet lover I walk in there and my heart does stop, because you're talking about dogs in very small cages being constantly asked to reproduce, reproduce, reproduce. It's no life for the puppies—as Andrew said, they don't get socialised—it's no life for the breeding bitches or indeed the breeding dogs.

But it's not just the puppy farms that I've been to. I also went, under disguise—I know, I'm not easy to disguise—to a rancid one, and I cannot tell you the shock and the horror that I felt when I went there. The barns with the holes in, the disuse, the rubbish, the filth, the stench—it was utterly, utterly appalling. And those sick puppies are now going to be sold to some family somewhere who are going to buy them in good faith.

And the last point I'd like to make, Cabinet Secretary, of course, is importation. Because I have also been present when a traveller's caravan was opened, that had just rolled off the ferry, at Pembroke. It was opened and I thought, 'Oh my God, what is that on the floor?' And then I realised it was seething with puppies, and they are shipped in. And they're shipped in because they make money and they're shipped in because they're a cover for other things that come in underneath them.

We have to stamp it out—it's cruel, it's inhumane. We should be better than that, and we have that opportunity. And, above all, I'll go back to what I said at the very beginning—they have become, in the heart of the nation, one of our best friends. The old turn to them when they're lonely, the kids turn to them to grow up as a playmate. Most of us have had an experience of dogs and cats. They're pets, we've loved them, we've brought them into our homes—we should treat them like family, not like this.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you to Andrew R.T. Davies for bringing forward this short debate today, and to Bethan Sayed and Angela Burns for also speaking. As Andrew referred to, I've already announced a consultation will be launched on this issue early in the new year, because I think all three speakers are absolutely right, this is something that we need to do.

I just want to clarify that this consultation will be about the third party sales of both puppies and kittens. Andrew, you mentioned breeding in the debate title, but those who breed the animals would not be third party sellers or dealers, they would be breeders, and it's really important to clarify that point. I think the fact that the title is slightly inaccurate does highlight the real complexities of this issue. 'Wales to ban commercial third party sales of puppies and kittens'—I think that sounds great, but there are so many factors to consider in this process. It would be foolish just to chase that solitary headline, because I do think we can do better here in Wales.

Nothing stops the movement of pets bred in Wales into other parts of the UK and vice versa. So, if we only looked at one step in the chain, I think it would really be a lost opportunity to make a very lasting and effective change. We must also ensure the welfare of animals at breeding establishments is not compromised as a result of any well-intended changes. The consultation process is absolutely key to this, and I don't want to pre-empt its outcome by discussing any detail of that today. The consultation will seek views and ask for evidence to help us paint a full picture of the supply chain of puppies and kittens, where in the chain there are welfare concerns, and also how a change in policy or legislation could address those concerns.

So, as I say, I don't want to speculate on the direction that the process of the consultation will take us. I don't want to discount any options available to us, and I've made it very clear I'm committed to addressing the concerns associated with third party sales. I absolutely stand by this and I can say today the 12-week consultation will be launched on 22 February, just to reassure all Members that that's what we will be doing. I really encourage Members to ensure their constituents put forward their responses to the consultation.

As a Government, we're also working with charities and welfare organisations, so I really do think you are pushing an open door. As you said, Andrew, we've had cross-party lobbying about this. I was very pleased to speak at an event hosted by Eluned Morgan around Lucy's law earlier this year. I think you're right, we can do better than this, animal health and welfare is a postbag that we always have full as AMs, on many different topics. So, we will be launching the consultation, as I say, on 22 February, and I very much look forward to bringing forward, I hope, a ban—I don't want to pre-empt the consultation, but I agree it's something we need to take very seriously here in Wales. 

Thank you very much, and that brings today's proceedings to a close. Could I wish everyone a merry Christmas and a happy new year? Please enjoy.

The meeting ended at 17:23.