5. Debate: Stage 4 of the Childcare Funding (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:11 pm on 12 December 2018.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 3:11, 12 December 2018

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Well, look, I'm a fairly easy going and generous minded person, but I'm slightly disappointed by the Conservative and Plaid Cymru response to what I think has been a constructive approach to the passage of this Bill. Can I just say, in voting against this Bill, it is voting against what we already know from the pilot areas is putting £200 to £250 a week into the hands of households—predominantly, by the way, women in those households, often those in the lower socioeconomic groups within our communities? You are voting against that.

I'd say to the Conservatives: you are voting against something that is not wholly dissimilar from what you had in your manifesto. But, actually, this Bill is not to do with the policy offer and I think—[Interruption.] Just a moment, Suzy. This is not to do with the policy offer per se. This is, I repeat once again, a narrow, technical Bill to actually enable HMRC to deliver eligibility and applications into the scheme and to lift the burden off local authorities who are currently doing it under the pilot schemes. Local authorities are asking us to take this burden off them. Now, of course, there is a wider debate around not only current but future direction of policy, but to vote against what is delivering a success story right across Wales in all areas that are piloting this, as witnessed by the fact that we have those areas that are not currently within it queuing up to say, 'Can we be part of it?'—well, you are doing a disservice to your constituents.

If I can just finish on this: it's been described as a Swiss-cheese framework—[Interruption.] Sorry, I will come back, but it's been described as a Swiss-cheese framework Bill. A framework Bill indeed does not fill in all the gaps, but it is appropriate in response to committees, which have said, 'Can we get the balance right between the flexibility of this Bill to actually change in future?', hence why it is underwritten not only by regulations but by an administrative scheme so that we can flex it as we learn from the pilots. So, I'm a little bit—. As an easy-going fellow, I'm a little bit upset at the slightly begrudging, as we approach Christmas, response. Suzy, I'll give way.