2. What discussions has the Counsel General had with the Irish Government regarding Brexit? OAQ53208

Welsh Ministers have discussed matters relating to Brexit with the Irish Government, principally via the British Irish Council, which I attended on 9 November 2018. I have also contacted my Irish Government counterpart to open up further dialogue and build upon existing close relationships.

I’m grateful to the Counsel General for that response, and may I encourage him to continue to engage with the Irish Government? As I mentioned yesterday, myself and Rhun ap Iorwerth were able to meet politicians from across the political spectrum in the Republic of Ireland last week, including Helen McEntee, the Brexit Minister. May I ask him, and I touched upon this yesterday, about article 50 and the call from the Welsh Government, and the Scottish Government, of course, that the UK Government should extend article 50? May I ask whether he would be willing to convey that message to the Republic of Ireland too, as there needs to be consent from all member states within the EU if that request were to be made by the UK Government as we hope to see? And on a broader issue, and if Brexit were to proceed, what work has been done, for example, to look at the INTERREG plan or something similar for the future, as is possible, of course, in the case of Norway and Sweden, even including nations outwith the European Union?

I thank the Member for the question. In terms of article 50, we take every opportunity to ensure that Governments understand our position on that. We called more recently on the Prime Minister in Westminster to ensure an extension on that to enable the discussions to go on.

In terms of the collaborative relationship between Wales and Ireland, the Member talks about INTERREG. We have, of course, a close relationship with Ireland through that and through other joint schemes. The current scheme emphasises the work in terms of climate change, culture and so forth. Those issues are important, of course, in terms of strengthening the relationship and in terms of economic opportunities, but we want to ensure that that collaboration continues even after Brexit and also extends beyond the current schemes, if that’s possible. We’re certain in our view that we are fully committed to strengthen the relationship between Wales and Ireland.

The Welsh Government launched its Brexit website for business in September 2018, and you said in your statement yesterday you hoped to have a further portal up and running within a few days. The Irish Government launched its prepareforbrexit.com website in June 2016, within a week of the referendum, and has been offering grants of up to €5,000 to help SMEs prepare for Brexit since the first quarter of 2017. Is there anything Welsh Government could learn from the Irish Government with respect to timeliness in this area?

We have waited for two years to hear what the UK Government's view is on the basis upon which we should leave the European Union—two years. Two years ago, this Government, together with Plaid Cymru, launched a paper that set out, with a very clear evidence base, the kind of relationship Wales should have with the European Union after Brexit. We were able to do that two years ago, working together, and we followed that up with a range of policy positions, which are evidenced and substantive, and which have been persuasive. And the question is why the UK Government wasn't able to do the same. On the point of timeliness, we, as I have said in the Chamber, have an online resource, which we plan to launch in the next few days, and that will, I hope, give the people of Wales a clear understanding of what the Welsh Government is doing in terms of preparedness. 

Counsel General, I am pleased to hear that you are having meetings or arranging meetings with your Irish counterparts and discussing, because if we have a 'no deal' situation, or even a deal and the backstop kicks in, there will be a border down the Irish Sea, and we need to address that. But can I ask you also to meet with counterparts—I know we haven't got a counterpart, but equivalents in Northern Ireland? When I went across to speak to the parties in Northern Ireland, it was quite clear that a lot of businesses use the ports of the Irish Republic to actually access Europe through the Welsh ports. As such, there is going to be a huge challenge to that situation, whether they travel down through Dublin and on to Holyhead, or whether they go across into Scotland. It is important, therefore, that we address the issues for them as well, to ensure that, if there is a boundary in the Irish Sea, they don't end up having to cross two boundaries to get to Northern Ireland. And it impacts upon Welsh ports. 

I thank the Member for that question. One of the points that requires clarification in the UK Government's proposals is its reference to checks being undertaken in the least intrusive possible way. That needs to be understood better. But the issue of the backstop, of course, if the sorts of proposals were adopted that we have been advocating here, would not arise. And whilst the backstop is an absolutely legitimate concern for the EU and UK Government to ensure that there isn't a hard border on the island of Ireland, the best possible scenario is that that isn't required at all because we have a set of arrangements that encompass a customs union between the UK and the EU.