14. Statement by the Counsel General and Brexit Minister: The Impact of a 'No Deal' Brexit on Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 7:00 pm on 22 January 2019.

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Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 7:00, 22 January 2019

You’ve made reference to people living in cloud-cuckoo-land, who were referring to free trade agreements, but, of course, we know that under your proposals, which seek to keep us in a customs union, the reality is that we wouldn’t be able to do any trade deals elsewhere around the world. That is the reality, and I wonder whether you could confirm that you accept that that is the reality under the proposals that you have developed and set before this National Assembly in your document. That’s the reality; nobody is—. The EU has made it quite clear that if we are in a customs union, there cannot be any free trade agreements. And yet, this is one of the things that the public were wanting and which many of them voted for when they voted for Brexit.

You’ve made reference to many of the companies, quite rightly, that export and are concerned about the future of export markets in the EU. I understand and appreciate those concerns, and it’s quite right that we should discuss them openly. But, do you accept that the overwhelming majority of Welsh businesses do not export to the EU and will not be affected in the way that you have suggested?

You made reference also to some of the challenges that may arise as a result of a ‘no deal’ Brexit in terms of increased bureaucracy and complexity in terms of non-tariff barriers. I accept that things would have to change, but do you accept that those challenges are not insurmountable? We have those sorts of checks already in respect of goods from other places outside of the European Union, and they don’t seem to cause any of the problems that you have suggested might arise in your statement.

I’m not quite sure what you’re referring to when you said it would be impossible for many businesses to export simply because they would have different rules for each of the EU-27 states. I don’t understand that. If there’s a single market, surely there are single rules to that market, and I can’t understand why you are suggesting there would be 27 different sets of rules. So, I’m not sure whether that's a cock-up in the statement that you’ve just read, or the one that was distributed, but I'd be interested to know precisely what you mean by that particular statement.

I noted that you made reference to the education sector, and, understandably, they are concerned about access to research funding and some of the collaborations that they're currently engaged in. Of course, I would like very much to see those collaborations continue, because I’m a person who believes that we should seek to strike a deal. But, do you agree with me that it’s very welcome, therefore, that the UK Government announced just yesterday an additional £0.25 billion—in fact, £279 million of Government investment—in order to develop research capability across the UK, collaborating with international partners to tackle some of the world’s biggest challenges? What are you doing as a Government to engage with the UK Government in order to try and attract some of that research investment here into Wales?

You’ve suggested that the risk to the future of our country is a right-wing Government that will respond by trying to reduce costs and boost competitiveness, yet the reality is that we have a Government, a UK Government, that has given absolutely clear commitments not to erode any of the environmental standards that we currently have, or the employment standards that we have either. So, would you agree with me that the biggest risk is not a ‘no-deal’ Brexit, but it’s actually a hard-left Government led by Jeremy Corbyn, who would once again ruin our public finances and cause many of our allies around the world to recoil at the sort of Government that we might have?

You made reference also to the need for us to ensure that we are welcoming to people from other nations, and that we have a workforce here in Wales that is capable of delivering the services and the needs of businesses across the country. Do you accept then that it's much better to have equal opportunity for people, whether they're from Berlin or Bangalore if they've got the right skills, to be able to come into this country to be able to serve in our public services and that, actually, the potential outcome here is a fairer system of immigration, which the Prime Minister has tried to negotiate through her deal? 

And do you also accept that in setting out the six tests, the Labour Party is actually setting out a number of red lines of its own in relation to a potential future relationship with the EU, whilst at the same time criticising the red lines that the UK Government has set out? 

And finally, can I ask you: what person in their right mind would ever agree to strike a deal with somebody under any circumstances, no matter how bad that deal might be, because that is what you are asking the UK Government to do by saying, 'Take no deal off the table'? That is the reality. Who when they go to buy a house guarantees—[Interruption.] Who when they go to buy a house guarantees that they will buy that house and that they will come to an arrangement in purchasing that house without the ability to be able to walk away if the cost of that house is too high? Nobody does. That's the reality, and that's why the Prime Minister is quite right not to take the threat of no deal off the table.