Any constituency Member of this Assembly will be very familiar with instances in their own consistencies where people with strongly held views and differing views about particular planning applications will come to put those views to you. People whose views prevail go away feeling that the system has worked very well and that their voices were heard. People whose views are not on the winning side tend to go away feeling that the system hasn't delivered what they were hoping from it. That's just inevitable when you have matters on which people have strongly held but differing points of view.

The system we have is one with proper checks and balances in it that aims to provide all those people with strong views an opportunity to have those views heard, that takes into account expert advice alongside all of those things. I would much rather that we went about these matters in that careful and considered way, than to have a series of referendums around Wales in which a winner-takes-all result will leave even more people disillusioned with the process than the system that we've explored so far this afternoon.