They have launched a number of initiatives over a number of years, but they recognise that they can't deliver their policy objectives through those initiatives in Wales because we don't have a settlement that enables them to do so. They're very aware that their objectives simply can't be reached under the current settlement—they're very aware of that.

So, we need, then, to design a system that meets Welsh needs. We need to ensure that mental health and substance abuse are a part of what we do across the whole of the criminal justice system. We need to address the appalling situation facing women and young people, but we do also need to address the estate for men as well. The estate as it currently stands is simply not fit for purpose, and we need to understand that we do need investment in the whole of the estate. We do need to create small local prisons with rehabilitation and rebuilding lives at their heart. We need to ensure that the decisions that are taken today on probation are taken forward in future. 

But none of this is possible without the devolution of the system. I regret that the Government has sought to amend the Plaid Cymru motion this afternoon—I believe that it's an error of judgment. The Government would have been better off supporting the Plaid Cymru motion. I'd be interested to hear the Minister's explanation as to why she's seeking to amend the motion today. I'll be very clear as well: I'm not minded to support the Government's amendment today, because I believe it does bring equivocation into an area where the Government has been very clear.

I'll finish by saying this:

'All candidates for the First Minister role are in agreement that justice should be devolved. This is the view of the Labour group in the National Assembly. My colleagues share the same views as me.'

That is Carwyn Jones, as First Minister of Wales, giving evidence to the justice commission in November of last year. I hope the Minister will be as unequivocal in her response this afternoon, because we are failing people today and we are failing people tomorrow. Unless we are prepared to take the difficult decisions and invest in the people of this country in the criminal justice system, we will also be guilty of the same failures that the Conservative Government in London are presiding over. I don't wish to be a part of that. As a Minister in this Government, I sought to take a radical approach to delivering social justice for everybody. We cannot deliver social justice unless we support the devolution of the criminal justice system and we invest in the people who are part of that system.