Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:26 pm on 30 January 2019.
I doubt if anything more I can say in this Chamber will persuade any other Member to change their position on this. But I think when you have reservations about a motion, I think it's wise to report it to the Chamber to be recorded on the Record. I respect very much those people involved with the people's vote campaign, and some of the best speeches I've heard in this Chamber have been from Lynne Neagle arguing for a people's vote, but I don't share that view. I have a great reluctance to support a referendum. I read, as Mark Reckless said, the words 'public vote'—I read that as 'referendum'; I understand that to be the Government calling for a referendum. I feel that the perceived need to hold a referendum is a sign of weakness in a representative democracy and a weakness that is demonstrating the starkness that is the lack of strength of a representative democracy, but I would say that is true of the very first referendum we held on the Brexit decision and it would be true of a future referendum.
Therefore, I am somewhat reluctant to support the Government and Plaid Cymru motion, but I am reassured by the fact that it says that a public vote will be taken when it is the only option that remains. And I fear what we saw last night in Westminster is a failure to reach an agreement that could've been reached in Parliament, and I fear that that will continue, and therefore the only option we will be left with is a referendum, which will be a suboptimal option, but it will be the only option. But we should also remember that it's come about because of the failure of our democracy and we should all, here and in Westminster, take responsibility for that.
Finally, I'd say, when you try and solve intractable problems with binary choices, you don't come up with solutions and I think we should be very careful about moving to a referendum without continuing to work, and, as Dawn Bowden said, delaying, possibly, article 50, and continuing to work for consensus in Westminster.