5. How is the Welsh Government co-producing services with the third sector and communities? OAQ53383

I thank Mark Isherwood for that. Llywydd, I want the principles of co-production to animate the approach of the Welsh Government in its work with the third sector and others. In order to achieve that, we work closely with the Co-production Network for Wales, Academi Wales and the Wales Audit Office, who encourage co-production through training, events and online resources.

Diolch. I've also worked for many years with the Co-production Network for Wales. I was in fact the only politician, I think, invited to their official launch—[Assembly Members: 'Hear, hear.']—which was well worthy of support. Last Friday, I once again visited a small charity, an autism charity supporting families with children on the spectrum, which is having to devote a massive amount of volunteer time to applying for tiny grants, often not being successful. I routinely visit equivalent small charities doing wonderful work, co-producing solutions with families and with community members that work, and yet millions are going into the Welsh Government statutory provision or the integrated autism service and other top-down programmes that are not reaching the organisations on the ground that are making that real difference. 

Given that the interim evaluation of the IAS last March identified the failure of co-production because of a top-down approach as being a significant problem, how can you, and will you, personally intervene to drive your understanding of co-production, which I know is deep and meaningful, so that we can actually start to begin to do this right and ensure that what funding is available—and there's a lot out there—is going where it can make a real difference rather than into county halls where it doesn't always reach the places that could make that difference, so badly needed?

Llywydd, I thank the Member for that question. This Government is committed to making sure that we work with a plurality of third sector organisations, recognising the very important contribution that they make to public services and the ability that they have to form an interface with the citizen that regards the users of our services as assets and people who have strengths that they can bring to bear on the services that are provided. I wanted to thank the Member for pointing out last week in First Minister's questions a report to which he referred, which I had a chance to look at over the weekend, and which does provide some practical ideas in the contracting sphere as to how small organisations can have a better chance of making the case for funding from public bodies. The place where I depart from Mark Isherwood, in relation to co-production, is that I sometimes think he describes it as a way of replacing the state as though it is a mechanism for moving things away from public services and replacing them with the work of others. I've never seen it that way myself; I see it as a way of augmenting, supplementing, influencing, shaping the work of others, but not of supplanting it.