I know there are many people who say the merger of these three organisations was bound to fail, but I'm not one of those naysayers. I don't agree with John Owen Jones. I actually think that the way it was done is obviously something we need to learn from, but that, actually, there is a huge strength in bringing together the different functions of this environmental body into one organisation, and I'm hoping that it is now going to work.

The reason why I think they need to be in one organisation is that the well-being of future generations Act requires us to look at all our various responsibilities holistically, so that we understand about climate change mitigation, we understand about how we can use our forestries to act as a carbon sink, as well as for biodiversity, as well as creating enough timber to build the environmentally appropriate housing that we're going to need in the future, for example, as well as tapping into the fantastic public goods we have that we are blessed with in Wales, which is through renewable energy, which enables us to diminish any reliance on carbon for generating energy. We could also use that as an export. So, I think there are huge possibilities for NRW, as well as, obviously, some challenges to rectify the mistakes that have been made in the past.

Clearly, the governance arrangements at NRW were completely inadequate, and that's one of the things where I think we need to really reflect on how it was that we had a board that really didn't understand exactly what their job was. I'm pleased to say that the internal audit and risk-assurance committee did do, I'm sure, what was an extremely painful review of how they acted, or didn't act, and I think that there's some evidence that they were not getting the information they needed, but nor did they seem to have the sense of enquiry to probe a bit deeper as opposed to just simply taking things as read.

They've now got a new chair of the audit and risk-assurance committee, and I feel sure that the group of people who've been brought together at the very senior level to oversee the level of change required to ensure that these timber contracts are never let in an inappropriate way in the future are going to get to the bottom of that. But I agree we need to look forward to make sure that problems don't pop up in a different direction, just because we've sorted out the way in which we manage our wood assets.

I know that several people are saying that—. Nick Ramsay said, 'Well, maybe they need a timber expert on the board.' Well, I'm not sure they do, because if you had a timber expert on the board, instantly there'd be a question mark as to whether there was some vested interest that would cause a conflict. If they were somebody who'd come from another continent who'd had experience of timber contracts, maybe, as long as they were no longer in the business. But I think just as important would be somebody who has experience of letting large contracts. It doesn't really matter what the product is, it's about knowing that you've got the legal and financial expertise to understand the value of whatever it is you're trying to trade and ensuring that it's being done in a way that meets our obligations under European regulations, as well as what the Welsh Government requires us to do.

So, I would agree that, at the ground level, there are lots of fantastic people at the coalface of NRW doing fantastic work, and you've only got to remember places we visited where we've met these people on the ground who are all incredibly enthusiastic about what they're doing. I do think, having spent a lot of time with the senior leadership of NRW this week, both in the Public Accounts Committee and in the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee this morning, that they do have the skills required to turn this situation around and make a success of it. So, I don't think that an independent inquiry is required at this stage. Were they to fail, then, obviously, that might be a different matter, but I have confidence in the current chief executive and chair, having seen them in action, as well as the director of resources who was with us this morning. So, I very much hope that we can look forward to what is a really, really important organisation for ensuring that Wales can maximise the opportunities from our fantastic natural resources and not see them being thrown away.