A People’s Vote

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd on 5 March 2019.

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Photo of Lynne Neagle Lynne Neagle Labour

(Translated)

7. Will the First Minister provide an update on his consideration of the need for a people’s vote on the EU withdrawal agreement? OAQ53529

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:12, 5 March 2019

Thank you. We are three weeks away from the point at which we are due to leave the EU but no closer to a deal. We have long said that, if Parliament concludes that a public vote is the only way to break the logjam and move forward, we would support it.

Photo of Lynne Neagle Lynne Neagle Labour

Thank you. Minister, do you agree with me that it is both essential to rule out the disaster of a 'no deal' and to ensure that the logjam in Westminster is broken? So, does she therefore agree with me that the Prime Minister's deal, which, whatever its gross inadequacies, is the only one on offer, must be put to the people with the option of accepting that deal and proceeding with Brexit, or keeping our current deal with a voice, a veto, full membership of the single market and customs union and complete participation in the crime-fighting and security mechanisms of the EU?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:13, 5 March 2019

Thank you for that supplementary question. We have constantly said a 'no deal' would be catastrophic for Wales, and certainly we do not support the current deal that the Prime Minister has negotiated. 

In relation to a referendum, I think we've consistently said we should let the UK Government and Parliament do their job—I think we've been very patient—and negotiate a deal in the national interest, capable of commanding a majority in Parliament. If they can't do that, the decision should be handed back to the people in a referendum. 

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

It is a fact, obviously, that the people of Wales voted to leave the European Union, and I very much hope the Welsh Government will respect the referendum result. But, if you do consider a people's vote as an option—and I, for one, do not—what analysis has the Welsh Government made of the time it would take to instigate a people's vote? I've heard figures of six, 12, 18 months. Surely, that would just add to the uncertainty if the Welsh Government was to put its weight behind such a proposition, however foolish that might be. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:14, 5 March 2019

We've always respected the decision of the Welsh people. We know they voted 'leave', and I said in my answer to Lynne Neagle I think we've been incredibly patient. We've tried to influence negotiations as best we can. As Ministers, we've all taken part in discussions constantly—I think you'll probably find every week we are in discussions with our counterparts in Westminster. So, it's not about not respecting the decision, it's about making sure that we don't have a 'no deal' and that we have a deal that is acceptable and, as I say, commands a majority in Parliament. That doesn't seem to be forthcoming. The Prime Minister just seems to be running down the clock; she seems to be kicking the meaningful vote into the long grass, and now it's going to be next week. We are now, what, 24 days from when we leave the European Union. 

So, in relation to your question around a referendum, obviously there are a lot of discussions to be had. Back in June 2016, as a Government, we were supportive of staying in the European Union. I don't think we've seen anything that would change that, but there's going to be a lot of discussion about what the specific question is, and once we know what that question is, if there were to be a people's vote, then we would, obviously, give our advice on that.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 2:15, 5 March 2019

It's very clear that the reason we're in the constitutional paralysis we're in is because we have a Government that is only capable of hanging on to power by bribing 10 Northern Ireland Members of Parliament. It's also very clear that a further referendum or a further vote will take at least six months. So, do you agree with me that, really, one of the key objectives at the moment has to be an extension to article 50? We cannot complete the legislative programmes that need to be completed, and the trade negotiations are in an absolutely desperate mess. Anyone looking at the national interest—putting politics to one side, just looking at the national interest—would come to the conclusion that an extension to article 50 of at least six months is absolutely vital.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:16, 5 March 2019

Certainly, yes. We've said that, and this Assembly, obviously, voted for that back in January. I think you're quite right about Northern Ireland. I know the finance Minister has just yesterday, I think, written to Liz Truss about the extra £140 million that seems to have appeared in the Northern Ireland budget, and it's not that we're opposed to Northern Ireland getting more funding, but it should be right across the UK, and we, too, should have additional funding, as should Scotland.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

I thank the Minister.