9. Debate on NNDM6985 — EU Withdrawal Negotiations

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:38 pm on 5 March 2019.

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Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 5:38, 5 March 2019

I very much respect, of course, the Member and his views, but I have to say, I saw the way that the Conservative Government operated from 2016 onwards, as did others in the current Government. David Davis, as far as I can see, did absolutely nothing for a year and a half. Absolutely nothing. Boris Johnson: nothing for a year and a half, apart from the odd quip now and again. A lot of time was lost, and I pay tribute to the attitude taken by people like David Lidington and Greg Clark. I may have my political differences with them, but they are far more pragmatic, and far easier to talk to, than David Davis and Boris Johnson ever were, and they actually do things, which the other two did not. 

In 2016 I don't recall any Member in this Chamber or indeed anybody campaigning in the Brexit campaign, on one side or the other, campaigning in favour of a 'no deal'. Nobody campaigned in favour of a 'no deal'. Everybody said on the Brexit side, 'There'll be a free trade deal. It'll be the easiest deal in history. German car manufacturers will step in. They'll force Germany and the EU to come to an agreement with the UK. We'll have 70 free trade agreements replicated, all ready to go by the time we leave.' None of this was true. Liam Fox said to me, 'We'll just replicate the free trade agreements that the EU has with other countries.' That hasn't happened. The Japanese said, 'You must be joking. Why would we have an agreement with you, who are eight times smaller than the European market, on the same terms as the European market?' Nobody campaigned for 'no deal'. 

And there are those, of course, who said that we'll have a deal with the US. Well, those of you who will have read the US's opening gambit for a free trade deal will understand that the US free trade deal involves access to the UK market for American companies but not the other way around, a lowering of our food standards, a lowering of our hygiene standards, a lowering of our regulations to allow American goods in and the ability of the US Government to have a say in the way that our currency operates. So, we exchange what Brexiteers say is EU control for US control, and that is not acceptable. But that is the reality of a free trade deal when you are a medium-sized country, rather than in a big bloc. The more of you there are, the more power you have.

No doubt there will be some who will say I'm arguing against Brexit, I'm not; I'm arguing against 'no deal'. There will be some who will say this is all about project fear—Honda: that's project fear, 3,500 jobs. Nissan: project fear; that's not going to happen, is it? Ford saying the same thing. BMW today saying they may have to move Mini production out of—[Interruption.] In a second. Out of the UK. Are these companies bluffing? Are these companies bluffing when they say they will leave the UK if there is no deal?

Of course, David.