Questions now from the party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, can I ask you—? As 29 March approaches, there will clearly be some opportunities for Wales as well as some of the concerns that have been raised. One of those opportunities is the opportunity for the United Kingdom to strike its own trade deals with other nations around the world. What are you doing as a Welsh Government to make sure that Wales can be at the vanguard of those trade decisions and the opportunities that they might present?

Well, we're already having extensive conversations with the Minister responsible in the Department for International Trade about how we can engage with the process. So, we're in the process of establishing a very formal structure, so that we can not only have an input into what should be the priority areas for the Welsh Government, in terms of countries that will have an impact—and they won't necessarily always be the same thing as the rest of the United Kingdom. The United States, for example, is at the top of the list for the United Kingdom; that's not necessarily where we would have our priority at the moment. So, we want to be able to influence, first of all, who we make trade deals with, but then to influence the debate, and the question then is to what extent we can influence that—can we be at the table, which of course would be our preferred option? If not, then how close can we get to the negotiation? But one thing we made absolutely clear, and that is, if there's any area where there's a devolved responsibility, we would expect to be a part of that discussion before they enter into conversation with any third country.

I'm very pleased to see that you've recognised the need to be at the table, and it's been interesting to see the noises that have been made by Business Wales, which have obviously been encouraging and promoting trade, in a very different way to the sorts of messages that we've heard in this Chamber from the First Minister and members of the Cabinet on occasions, which have been predominantly very negative about Brexit and the opportunities that it might present. Now, my party, of course, has put forward a suggestion that there ought to be trade envoys in many different parts of the world, shouting up for Wales, involved in the discussions, working very closely with British embassies in those different nations of the world where trade opportunities are there for Welsh businesses. What consideration have you given as a Welsh Government not just to supporting the infrastructure that you have already in the Welsh Government offices in different nations, but supporting the infrastructure within British embassies too, to make sure that the Welsh voice—the distinctive Welsh voice—is heard?

Thank you, Darren. I don't want you to get the impression that I'm keen to be making trade deals with other countries for the sake of it. I am absolutely clear that the priority for the Welsh Government should be in ensuring that the most important trade relationship—our relationship with the European Union, where 60 per cent of our goods goes—should be the priority, above all other priorities. And it is, I think, very disturbing that we are less than 30 days away from a situation where we could be leaving the EU with absolutely no idea about what that relationship looks like. So, I have huge concerns about that relationship. But, in the meantime, we understand that there are conversations going on by the UK Government, and we don't want to be left out of those. So, I just want to make sure that that's clear.

In terms of trade envoys, I think that you're absolutely right—there's a real opportunity. One of the things that I'm clear about is that, actually, we have Welsh people all over the world who have great expertise in a lot of areas, and we need to be using that expertise in a way where some of our generalist officials can't get us into the kind of top-level companies. But if we have people who have contacts, they can get us to the absolute top in these organisations. So, we will be working on how we develop a diaspora strategy—what is our relationship. But I'm absolutely clear that that diaspora, and those trade envoys, whatever form those take—so, it may be something very unofficial, it could be something a little bit more formal; we still have yet to map out what that might look like—are absolutely key.

But the other thing that you point out, which I absolutely agree with, is that what we have is a network of British embassies around the world, where they are massively resourced, and we need them to be doing a lot more work for us. So, we will be doing a lot of work in really trying to give them a lot more guidance in terms of what we're looking for from them as a Welsh Government.

Clearly, Minister, there are businesses in Wales that are already trading with the wider world, even in the absence of distinctive trade deals with many of those nations. What work are you going to do to harness the opportunities that that presents, where people have already got a foothold, if you like, into trading with some of these very significant economies around the world where there aren't already trade deals in place? I'm thinking particularly of Australasia, other parts of the North American market. I heard what you said about North America not being a priority for the Welsh Government in the future. I think that that is a great disappointment actually, because I think there are huge opportunities for Welsh businesses in North America. Of course, we have got to make sure that any future trade deal is in good shape and is in the right shape to benefit Wales, but clearly there are opportunities because of existing business relationships. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with the CBI, with the FSB, with the Institute of Directors, to make sure that we're harnessing the existing relationships that are already there, not just in terms of the diaspora, but in terms of those existing discussions that are already taking place and trading relationships that are already available to us? 

Well, I actually don't think you always need a trade agreement to be having very strong trade relationships. An example of that is the United States. So, we have more investment from the United States into Wales than any other country around the world. I'm not saying that we shouldn't trade with the United States; I'm just saying we don't necessarily think having a trade agreement is the priority. What I think we can do, and what we are doing already, is to put Welsh companies that have an interest in expanding into the US market in touch with operators in that market who are already there who have Welsh contacts, who can get them into a level of discussion and debate in terms of how to access the market, and what we have to do is duplicate that around the world. So, part of what we need to be doing in the next few months and years is to just make sure that that database of contacts is really up to speed so we know exactly who is actioning where and who has got the appetite to help us as a nation. 

The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell. 

Thank you, Llywydd. I’m sure that supporters the length and breadth of the nation have been following developments in the world of rugby in Wales this week with a mixture of confusion, excitement, hope and fear. Residents of north Wales will be delighted there’s a possibility they will receive a professional region at last, which would mean that rugby would be entirely professional on a national level, providing opportunities to develop young players for the future. But, there was a different response from supporters of the Ospreys and Scarlets with concerns that the plans would destroy the identity of the teams that they’ve followed for a long time, or would damage the game at a grass-roots level. I’d like to ask the Deputy Minister what discussions have been held between the Welsh Government and the Welsh Rugby Union about these plans and whether there is truth behind the report that the union has asked for financial support from the Government to continue with these plans.

May I first of all answer the last part of the question? There has been no application for additional financial support made to the Welsh Government this year from the WRU. We have contributed the usual sum to the union, which is £880,000—I apologise, £853,000 this year. We have also contributed towards Conwy County Borough Council, where I happen to reside—I should perhaps declare an interest as a result of that—for work on the development of Parc Eirias. That is a capital investment.

I do regularly speak to the rugby union as I do with the Football Association of Wales and a number of other sporting bodies and associations of all kinds, and, of course, Sport Wales too. But there have been no negotiations, and I wouldn’t expect there to be, because it’s clear to me that the WRU or the regions have yet to agree what they wish to do. As one who recalls the discussions of the past, back at the beginning of 2003 particularly, I think it’s important that these negotiations happen between the clubs and the new professional board so that they can find a way forward before they consider any sort of funding. I wish them well in the process of doing that, because I do want to see the game strengthened. But, it needs to be strengthened the length and breadth of Wales, and I am still looking at the success of Ireland, and the very interesting situation there, where the regional teams are owned by the rugby union there. Now, it’s not my role, as sports Minister, to suggest any such approach in Wales, but there are different models of support that are possible.

I thank the Deputy Minister for his response. I’d like to now turn to broadcasting. Last week, we heard that Welsh morning broadcasts on the Heart and Capital networks will be brought to an end, with British broadcasts provided in their place. Clearly, many people were extremely disappointed with this announcement. The reason that the parent company, Global, has been able to scrap these programmes is that Ofcom has recently slackened the rules in order to decrease the required number of locally produced broadcasts.

In addition, there’s been a great deal of attention given to Pitching In, the new BBC programme—a programme written in England, from an English perspective, with the identity of Anglesey, where the programme is located, being ignored. Many characters in the programme have Valleys accents, and the programme portrays an image of north Wales that is entirely foreign to local residents. Ofcom has rejected making regulations that would force producers of programmes of this kind to cast local actors. If this were to happen, it would avoid such a mess arising again, because local voices would be heard from the beginning. Time and again, regulators in London prioritise the interests of wealthy commercial companies over the benefits and interests of the people of Wales. What steps has the Welsh Government taken to put pressure on Ofcom to consider the interests of audiences and the creative sector in Wales in making decisions, and what steps do you intend to take in future to undo this damage and to try to ensure that Welsh interests will have a better hearing in future?

Ofcom does have a Welsh representative on its central board. Ofcom also has a consultative committee representing Wales. I do hope that these issues will be discussed in the appropriate manner within those structures.

As it happens, I have one of my regular meetings with Ofcom taking place over the next fortnight and I will certainly be listening in order to learn in more detail how Ofcom in Wales does seek to influence Ofcom throughout the rest of the UK. I don’t think that the current regulation system for broadcasting is a regime that works for the benefit of Welsh broadcasting at best. So, I’m eager to see any recommendations that could be put in place to strengthen the situation. And if it is true—to answer your second question or perhaps your third question—that the reduction in Welsh and bilingual materials—and I’ll finish now in two minutes—in terms of Welsh and bilingual broadcasting on commercial radio has reduced because of a decision by Ofcom, then I do think that that is an issue that we should be able to discuss in detail with Ofcom.

I do have some experience in this area as a former director of the Marcher company, which created the well-known radio station, Champion FM, in Caernarfon. This is the point I wanted to make: the intention of that station was to broadcast bilingually, to broadcast both in Welsh and in English, using different sentences but doing so bilingually and using music in both languages too in order to create bilingual commercial radio that people in communities where the language changes consistently and regularly—that both those languages could be heard so that more people listen to Welsh than those actually tuning in to specifically Welsh broadcasts as we get from Radio Cymru and the BBC.

So, I think there is far more work to be done in this area in terms of how we increase bilingualism in our broadcasting in a way that ensures that the audience, which is gradually increasing in terms of the number of people who are bilingual, can use that medium and hear the Welsh language and English with a Welsh accent—and that’s important too—without any difficulty. 

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

I thank the Deputy Minister for his response again, but it appears to me that this is a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, if you forgive me for using that idiom. The truth is that the only way of ensuring that the benefits and interests of Welsh audiences and the Welsh creative sector are safeguarded is the devolution of broadcasting to Wales.

Devolution of broadcasting would enable us as a nation to tell our own stories from our own point of view, giving a better understanding to our citizens of our cultural wealth and the reality of life in modern Wales. This would be the most effective way of getting to grips with the democratic deficit because recent evidence shows that around half of the people of Wales still believe that it's in Westminster that decisions about health services are managed, even though the powers have been devolved for 20 years. Now, this has serious impacts on accountability, because it's difficult for constituents to hold politicians to account if they are not sure who is responsible for running different public services.

In the evidence that was provided for the Silk commission, 60 per cent of respondents were in favour of the devolution of broadcasting, and opinion polls find, time and time again, that there is widespread support for greater devolution to Wales. As it is clear that the Westminster Government is failing in its responsibilities to Welsh broadcasting, and that there is wide-ranging support for providing greater powers to this Senedd, does the Deputy Minister agree that it is now vital that broadcasting is devolved to Wales as soon as possible?  

Well, no, because I think it's very important in this area that we look not only at broadcasting but at all the digital communications media. What's important for me is that the Welsh language and the English language in Wales appear on as many mediums as possible, and that includes social media and through the screens that people so regularly use. We shouldn't only be looking at broadcasting. Trying to regulate broadcasting on a stand-alone basis and separately from any other methods of communications and other kinds of audio-visual culture—. That would be a mistake, in my view, because, if you're talking about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, then—. Trying to devolve broadcasting alone would be a mistake, in my view.

But, of course, culture policy does have to include an understanding of communications. I have an overview of broadcasting, although broadcasting, as it isn't devolved, doesn't relate directly to our department, but we do have regular and useful debates with the Welsh broadcasters. What I would encourage is that you, and other Members, discuss these issues at every possible opportunity with the broadcasters and with the organisations that I named in my first answer, who are responsible for expressing a consultative view to the authorities—in this case, Ofcom—and, likewise, there are similar arrangements in broadcasting and in television so that the audience and the views of the audience are reflected by you as elected Members to the bodies responsible for broadcasting.

I don't think we make sufficient use of the devolved structures of accountability that we have, and we should certainly take every opportunity to do that in order to have a formal and informal discussion on these issues. Assembly committees—as the culture committee has done recently, in its work on radio and in other areas—have a particular role to play in that regard. Thank you.

UKIP spokesperson, Gareth Bennett.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, it's World Book Day tomorrow, as you probably know. Can we have an update from you on what new work and new projects the National Library of Wales will be undertaking in the coming year?

The National Library of Wales has a new chief executive, and I'm sure that that new chief executive will be, in the next few months, setting out a programme of activities, and I do hope that a recognition of the role of women in Welsh life will be a part of that.

Thanks. Thanks for that answer, and I look forward to the new programme when the new chief executive gives us that announcement. Do you agree that—? Aberystwyth, of course, is where the national library is, for perfectly good reasons, but, of course, it isn't that accessible for people in many other parts of Wales, so it is important that the national library undertakes outreach projects so that people throughout Wales can benefit from its cultural heritage. Do you think it's important, going forward, that there is an outreach role for the national library?

I do, but I think what's more significant and more important is for the national library to make sure that they digitalise their resources and that that is made accessible to the people of Wales. And I know that that has been a task that has been undertaken by the National Library of Wales over the past few years. There's been a huge task of work to undertake that, and that now, I think, is how the majority of people will be able to access that invaluable resource, which is one of the great treasures of Wales.

Yes, I agree that online technology is going to be crucial as well. Now, one factor that we have had in recent years, with local government finances being stretched, is there is an unfortunate consequence of the closure of many local libraries, among other local facilities. Wales has lost quite a lot of libraries—I believe a sixth of Welsh libraries have been closed since 2010. So, thinking about your previous answer with digitalisation—obviously that is going to help to mitigate the problem to some extent, if that programme is rolled out effectively—are there other ways in which the national library can help to mitigate the problem of communities losing their local library?

Well, I think it's a real tragedy that we're losing so many of our libraries around Wales and, of course, that is a consequence of the austerity that has been imposed on our country over the past 10 years. Of course, we all know that it's the non-statutory areas that are the first to be cut, and that's why libraries have really suffered in some of our local communities over the past few years. There are some really good models, I think, of communities getting together to ensure that they can continue with their library provision, and I think there's a lot that we can do to learn from each other across Wales on how we can ensure that that provision, as far as possible, can be kept open for the public. Of course, the real answer to this is that we need to see a reversal of the austerity that has been imposed on our country for such a long time.

Thank you. Question 3—Michelle Brown.