7. Debate on the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee report: Inter-Institutional relations agreement between the National Assembly for Wales and the Welsh Government

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:51 pm on 6 March 2019.

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Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:51, 6 March 2019

I wasn't going to speak in this debate because I clearly understand it's about principles, but I think it's important to understand that this is not a constitutional issue, it's actually an issue for the whole Assembly and various committees, and I think that's very important to recognise. I'm disappointed that perhaps we haven't got so many colleagues in the Chamber to actually understand that.

As Suzy Davies pointed out, the number of SIs that go through—. Now, last Monday, the common fisheries policy was an SI under Standing Order 30C, where the Welsh Government has ceded the decision to the UK Government for actually undertaking that work. When you read these SIs, you actually identify that, yes, technically, it replaces the union with the United Kingdom, but then it replaces a commission with the Secretary of State. So, actually, it's the Secretary of State that makes decisions, and very often, it also confers concurrent powers upon Ministers, which means that UK Ministers can actually take decisions on devolved areas as well. So, we need to have an understanding of what these actually mean for Wales.

I welcome this agreement between the Assembly and the Welsh Government because it is crucial that we have an opportunity before they go. And I will just give a caveat in here, when they get the agendas, because very often, when we've raised the issue, the Ministers don't get the agendas until a day before they go, and sometimes, when they get there. That's got to be unacceptable, and that's perhaps a way we, as an Assembly, can put the pressures upon our parliamentarian colleagues in Westminster to say, 'Get your act in order and get your Ministers to put these agendas in place,' because how can we hold them to account when they don't have the papers, because some other Parliament, another Government, is withholding those? But, when we do hold you to account, would you come back and tell us about it? But, we want to actually influence it; we want to actually hold you to account to say, 'Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve? And when you come back, did you achieve it? Why didn't you achieve it? What were the issues?' So, it is crucial that this Assembly has that opportunity, and this agreement puts a formal process in place for that to happen, and that's very much appreciated.

But what we have to also now try and do is pursue this further because we've been doing this, very often, under the auspices of Brexit. When we do leave—and I think we will leave the European Union—the whole structure within the UK is going to change. We need that recognition that the discussions our Government will have with the Westminster Government are going to be crucial for the policies here in Wales. We have frameworks we know that will be in place in agriculture. There may well be other frameworks in place, and we want to have our say and our influence as an Assembly on what's being said in those discussions. So, I welcome very much, Llywydd, this agreement, and I hope that we will ensure that it actually works for us, and we press the UK Government to actually give us sufficient time to undertake our scrutiny.