Group 9: Complaints-handling procedures (Amendments 47, 11, 48)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:59 pm on 13 March 2019.

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Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 4:59, 13 March 2019

Diolch, Llywydd. In terms of amendment 47, the greatest strength that was acknowledged in the Bill at Stage 1 was the affirmative nature within in, hence the moving of this amendment, because there's little opportunity for the Assembly to properly scrutinise the principles before their introduction, at the very least at the first statement of principles. That is potentially a concern. I understand that the ombudsman's office, having received whatever this Bill ultimately concludes, is the body that will be drawing up the statement of principles, but there is the good old Platonic phrase, 'Who shall guard the guardians?' And much as the ombudsman must by definition be separate from this place—arm's length from this place—the Assembly, we believe, has a role in this context.

Regarding amendment 48, the Member in charge questioned why other larger bodies—and he named a number of larger bodies—would be treated differently. It's because they're larger bodies. This isn't to apply to every town and community council—many would have no reason not to meet the requirements detailed here. It only applies to those that, for resource reasons, as I outlined and as One Voice Wales has subsequently outlined in the correspondence I quoted, would find it practically, for practical purposes, difficult to meet this requirement. So, it's not a mandatory imposition applying to all public bodies or all bodies subject to the ombudsman's remit; it's only a discretionary power to be used when a body is likely to, or is known to, lack the resources to meet the requirement within the specified terms within the Bill. And we need to reflect that concern. We need to reflect the differentiation across the public sector, and particularly within town and community councils across Wales. It's not an excuse to allow bad performers off a bad performance. That needs to be addressed. It's a practical measure to help those who might do better in the future get to that point without penalising them for things that are beyond their control. I move.