Can I assure you that it causes no pleasure to this side of the Assembly to have to highlight these controversies and note the issues that have restricted NRW since its creation? Because the body's role is critical and its purpose is crucial for the effective management and sustainability of our natural environment here in Wales.

Back in 2011, when details of the planned merger of the Countryside Council for Wales, the Environment Agency and the Forestry Commission were first announced, the environment Minister said that the move would ensure more sustainable and effective management of our natural resources, and that really has to be held as the guiding principle when we scrutinise the actual performance.

As I've said before—I'm not quite sure if I said it at the time, but I certainly said it when I was on the climate change committee—three into one was never going to be easy. It was always a challenging situation for the management team at NRW, and, as we have heard, there was also change in leadership. I did try to give praise where it was due. The staff survey that we've referred to was actually an excellent device and a really rigorous survey. And to have done that at a time when you were merging organisations, and there were inevitably people that felt slightly bruised in that process, I thought did show leadership. But I think it's been some of the other more general issues that have, perhaps, undermined our faith that they were really moving on, and the issues relating to forestry in particular have been grave because they've been repeated. Let's not forget that this wasn't a one-off; it happened again. And I do think the Welsh Government has to take more responsibility. It's an arm's-length organisation and, I have to concede, the Government would be unduly criticised if it was interfering too much, but you do need to show leadership, and you are prepared to do that on certain occasions, like issues that are of public concern, as the shooting ban perhaps indicates. So, I do think that the organisation needs clear direction of travel from the Welsh Government.

We've also heard that, from the very start, the Welsh Government was warned about these challenges of creating a new organisation. And so the change management, one has to say, has not been exemplary, to put it at its mildest. And I do think that if more care had been paid at the time when these things were mooted, then I think that some of these issues, certainly the need for a real robust commercial management capacity in the new organisation, would have probably been factored in from the very start, had you reflected on the criticisms that people were making of the original business plan. I will give way.