The next item, as I said, is the short debate, and I call on Neil McEvoy—Neil McEvoy.

Okay. Diolch. Children's services: time for change. This is both a negative and positive contribution to a debate we need to have. I think, in Julie Morgan, we have a Minister who cares. So, I think that's a good starting point. Every single detail of this speech relates to a real individual, a real-life situation. None of this is abstract or academic. Minister, the status quo is not working. There's so many gaps in the system. We need better policies and procedures to plug those gaps. It's really important to say that this debate is not an attack on social workers. This is about the system. Social workers are under-resourced and over-worked. Too much pressure is on them. Their caseloads are unbearable and they're too often placed in impossible positions. No social worker should have more than 20 children to look after, but it's not uncommon for social workers to have 40 cases. The result is that they are simply unable to do the job that they went in the profession to do. They spend their time filling in paper and protecting themselves instead of addressing the serious matters affecting children and families.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

There is a lack of resource at the front line, but it's not just a question of money; it's how the money is spent. Let's look at children in care. There are roughly 6,000 children in care in Wales. In the last nine years, the number of children in care has gone up 36 per cent. So, there are 1,700 more children in care. The rate of children in care in Wales now stands at 102 per 10,000—significantly higher than the rate in England, which is 64 per 10,000. If we go back further and look at the number of children in care in 1991, it's more than doubled since. Why is this? Children in care account for over half the total budgeted expenditure on children's and family social services in 2018-19. Public care applications in the last 10 years have more than doubled. An enormous amount of money is spent on fighting cases against parents in the most aggressive way. It's a real David and Goliath situation, except, in most cases, David doesn't even have a sling. Again, the cost to the public purse is enormous—enormous. A system of parental advocacy with teeth should be brought in to reduce the amount of children put into care. Such a system could support families, reduce costs and, crucially, bring about better outcomes for children.

According to the Welsh Government, the average cost of a local authority placement is £23,000, compared to an independent agency costing £43,000 per year. Some of the most complex young people, on average, cost about £6,500 per week. In February 2018, Caerphilly had the highest cost placement at £16,500 a week. Cardiff spent £64,000 per child—per looked-after child—in 2016-17. Now, it would be cheaper for a child to go to boarding school and to go on holiday during the holidays and have that paid for by the public purse than to be put into care. It's an incredible situation. Taking children into care has become a lucrative business, so, Minister, you have an industry to confront.

Let's touch on anonymous examples. Now, family A—I won't say where—reports conclude that the parents love the children. There's no physical threat to the children. Children's services admits that the children love the parents, but, according to the lead councillor of that council, the skills of the parents are not up to scratch. The parents actually approached children's services for support with one child. The child had a very difficult birth, there was a lack of oxygen to the brain, and the child spent a lot of time with mother in hospital. It would have been logical to look at the medical reasons for behaviour of the child, but children's services refused to do this and they blamed mother. On the basis of the behaviour of one child, all four children were taken into care. The resulting emotional collapse of those children was not taken into account. Errors were made in assessment—factual errors. Mother was blamed for not attending medical appointments, and that was used as evidence of neglect. On those dates, mother was in hospital with the child.

Those serious errors are still uncorrected, and what a shock: in 10 years of experience in dealing with such cases, it is almost impossible—impossible—to get factual errors in reports corrected, many of which end up before the courts. So, judges make judgments on cases in which they are misinformed—they're given bad information. All interviews between parents and children's services should be digitally recorded. The data can be kept securely on a cloud and, crucially, there would be evidence to iron out sometimes really serious errors—really serious. 

In a meeting with the deputy director of children's services in the local authority in the case I'm talking about, the deputy director had been briefed by officers, yet relayed error of fact after error of fact. The same deputy director told me before the case review that there would be no change in contact arrangements—now, I emphasise, before the review. The deputy director was right, because there was no change, despite one child pleading to go home. After the review, the independent officer was asked how he or she could possibly recommend no change and the reply was that he or she had 90 cases—90—and was unable to properly scrutinise the case. It's not unreasonable to conclude that such reviewers are led by the nose and are not independent; they don't have the time to be. After changes of senior management, I'm glad to say that this case is now being investigated, but I had to employ a social worker, a very experienced social worker, to do the work on that case.

I have another case also where allegations against the children's family have been fabricated. The family was involved in getting a social worker struck off and the response from the local authority is one of supreme aggression, and it's a case that I will be following up.

Professionals in the field tell me that parents with mental health challenges get a raw deal. Now, Minister, this really does need to be looked at with measures and support put in place. As a general rule, there is huge class discrimination in taking children into care: do not be working class; do not be on a low income; do not be without formal education; do not be a former child in care; do not be a former victim of child abuse or rape, because, I tell you, in some circumstances, all this will be held against you and I've seen the cases to prove it. I'll tell you also: don't be a feisty mother trying to protect her offspring, because this will also be held against you—you will be called 'aggressive'; you will be called 'unco-operative'. And the fact that mothers may dearly love their children who they have lost will not be taken into account. The treatment of some mothers that I've come across borders on inhumane. There is a complete absence of taking into account the mental health conditions and the trauma of losing one's children.

Where there are serious threats, of course children should be removed. There's no argument with that; we all support that. But there are so many cases that I've come across where families need support, not punishment. As a result, now, I'm currently employing two social workers to work on my caseload.

Let's move on to child protection conferences. Minister, I'm banned from attending any child protection conference in Cardiff, and I'd like to tell you why because I think you'll be shocked. I attended a conference and there were lots of errors. Father was a victim of domestic abuse, yet there was no statutory domestic abuse agency there to support him. If he were female, he would have been supported, so there's a systemic gap. Moving on, the local authority had in writing that there was a paedophile threat to the child when in mother's care. The chair of the child protection conference tried to close the conference without discussing the paedophile threat. I raised the matter and the chair said that it was not relevant. After I raised the paedophile threat, a person supporting the mother said, 'That won't happen again'. The words are burnt into my memory: 'That won't happen again'. I asked, 'What won't happen again?' and, of course, there was no reply. I asked for everything to be minuted and, when the minutes came through, there was no reference to the paedophile threat. The hearing, however, had been covertly recorded and it was evidenced that the paedophile threat was mentioned. I complained to the local safeguarding board and all but one of my complaints were upheld. So, I was right to complain, we were vindicated, but the action of children's services was not to resolve matters, but to ban me from any future conferences with any parents, and this is something I'll be challenging in the near future. And then, afterwards, the department aggressively went after father, who was the safeguarding influence in the child's life. Minister, all child protection conferences should be digitally recorded and the data held on a cloud, a secure cloud. 

The important point about this is that, if parents have a strong advocate in such proceedings, then they will simply be taken out of the equation and parents will be left without adequate help, and that cannot be right. It also begs the question: just who are child protection conferences there to protect? Parental alienation, according to expert witnesses on the Petitions Committee, is a form of child abuse. This abuse is ignored and, indeed, tolerated. A strategy to keep both parents in children's lives should be adopted by all children's services departments. There needs to be a rebalancing of power with children's services. It's far too easy for individuals to be crushed—and I do say crushed—in every sense. Justice and due process need to be at the heart of everything done. At the moment, I have too many examples where they simply are not. 

The timetabling of courts doesn't help either, Minister, because too often under-resourced social workers do not have time to prepare adequate reports, and the emphasis then is on box ticking.

I'll briefly talk about the complaints procedure, because once you get to a stage 3 independent complaints level, the so-called independent investigator is both employed by and paid by the council. Now, if the investigator were to be too robust, let's say, then they're not going to be re-employed, and there's case after case after case where they're clearly not independent, and that's another gap, Minister. 

My considered view is that children's services should be taken out of local authority control. Wales should have a children's service that is democratically accountable, because at council level there is virtually no accountability—no accountability. Cabinet members simply do not know what is going on. Social workers have a right to expect to be able to practice their vocation free of fear. Children across Wales have the right to expect to be kept safe, and families have a right to be supported, not punished. Mae'n amser newid—it's time for change. Diolch. 

Can I call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services to reply to the debate—Julie Morgan? 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I am pleased to respond to this debate put forward by Neil McEvoy, and I appreciate the calm, measured way he has presented his arguments. I think the individual points that he makes about individual situations—I'm not able to comment on them, so I thought I would use the opportunity to talk about what our philosophy from the Government was about children, and what our hopes for children are. I think, really, all parties have always bought into—well, there is a clear consensus that we all have a collective responsibility to ensure that we try to give children and young people the best care and support that is available to them, to allow them to flourish in a safe environment, supported and guided by people who care and have their best interests at heart.

The laws in Wales have changed significantly in recent years, and that transforms how social care is given through the Social Services and Well-being Act (Wales) 2014 and the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016. The 2014 Act has been in force since April 2016, and stakeholders across Wales have worked very hard to implement its aspirations. and the purpose of that Act is prevention, early intervention to help parents—which I know the Member will agree with—co-production, working together with families, and voice and control are at the heart of the Act, and thanks to the action of this Assembly in agreeing the regulated adoption service regulations yesterday, 29 April—that will mark a milestone in the delivery of the 2016 Act, when Care Inspectorate Wales will start registering providers of adoption and fostering services, bringing them into the scope of the quality improvement focus of the 2016 Act. So, there was a significant development yesterday in the care of children.

So far, during my time as Deputy Minister, I've spoken to a range of people involved with the lives of children and families. I've spoken to senior local authority officers, local politicians, third sector organisations, and I've spoken directly to children and young people about their experiences of services too, and that, I think, has been one of the most important exercises I've undertaken—listening directly to children and young people. And while the experiences I've heard have been varied—what they've said to me has covered a range of responses—I do continue to be humbled and impressed by the sheer dedication and passion of those involved with helping children and families who are living through very unsettled times. I do have to speak up for the many social workers and workers in the childcare system who do work very hard and very genuinely to try to improve the lives of children, and there is much determination to do the right thing. I want us, the Government, to do all we can to facilitate and support those social workers and our stakeholders to make sure that we do try to deliver the best services possible. So, that is the profound wish of the Government, that we want to improve the lives of children who are in difficult circumstances, and we know that the children and young people who come into contact with public services will be going through the most difficult and challenging family circumstances, and I have really admired many of those children who have shown great resilience, often, and great coping mechanisms to deal with very difficult situations.

I think, as Neil McEvoy did acknowledge in his contribution, that the safety of our children is paramount, and whilst we do all we can to work with families to keep the family unit together, sometimes, it is in the best interest of the child to live in a different arrangement, and that is and should always be completely as a last resort. This, of course, could be with their extended family or friends, or often with grandparents or in more formal arrangements such as special guardianship or kinship foster placements. Children living in any of these arrangements should receive the support they and their carers need to promote their well-being, whether or not they are a looked-after child, and when children do go into a care setting, we all have a responsibility to ensure their lives and opportunities are as favourable as their peers'. We are committed to do all we can for those children, and I'm sure you will know that the Welsh Government has publicly committed to our vision for children's services in our programme for Government, 'Taking Wales Forward' and the national strategy, 'Prosperity for All'.

Deputy Presiding Officer, our First Minister strongly supports this vision, and has set out his priorities, which I believe will help local authorities focus their efforts where significant impact can be made. And in support of those priorities, I will be working with local authorities individually—with individual local authorities—to safely reduce the number of children in care, and, as appropriate, the number of out-of-county and out-of-country placements. The Member did say in his contribution about the rising numbers of children in care, and I think he's making a very important point there. The Government wants to reduce those numbers who are in care and we want to do that safely. So, during April and May this year, our officials will be meeting with all local authorities to talk with them about how we can work together to make progress on these priorities and to put in place appropriate plans for some of these children because, obviously, we've got to take into account the demography and the environment within which local authorities are delivering services so that we can understand the challenges and produce together a tailored solution. So, I hope I'll have the chance to update you further on how this work is progressing. 

So, linking strongly to the point that you've made about too many children being in care, we agree with that, and we are trying and we're going to have a concerted effort to try to reduce the number of children in care. I'm pleased that there is significant interest in this important area, because if we are scrutinised, it does maintain our focus to actually try to achieve something. It can drive quality improvement and galvanise actions. For example, the Public Accounts Committee is undertaking its own inquiry looking at public services for care-experienced children and young people. And the first part of that inquiry has been completed, and we're taking forward a number of recommendations as a result. For example, we've given a commitment to develop a national approach to placement commissioning, and this will build upon the work already being undertaken by the National Adoption Service, the national fostering framework, and the children's residential care task and finish group.

We're particularly keen to promote regional approaches to provision of specialist services, such as residential care for children and young people at risk of going into secure accommodation. We want to de-escalate the services and try to make sure that we do have regional provision for children to go into so that they don't have to travel miles away from their home, because we do think it's very important that children are placed as near as possible to their families, who, obviously, are of utmost importance to them. Following our new investment of £15 million into the integrated care fund to support prevention and early intervention services for care-experienced young people, regional partnership boards have been working hard to develop proposals for innovative new approaches to increase the capacity of our residential accommodation and promote new models of support.

And of course, we have got the children's ministerial advisory group, which is chaired excellently by our colleague David Melding, and I'm sure you'll have heard about the work that that group does. They have three key areas of priority, and they are the same as what are now my priorities: safely reducing the number of children in need of care; having sufficiently high-quality placement options for children who are looked after or who are leaving care—so, we want to be sure that there are suitable placements for the children who have to come into care; and supporting children who are looked after to have the best possible journey through care and into adulthood. We have invested to support care-experienced children to keep families with their birth families wherever possible, and this includes—we've established the St David's Day fund, and in its first year alone, over 1,900 care-experienced children across Wales have been supported through this fund. We have developed edge-of-care services in each of the 22 local authorities, and we've helped over 3,600 children to remain within the family unit, by working with more than 2,000 families last year. We've rolled out the Reflect service across Wales, and so far, this year, the service has supported in excess of 160 young parents who've had at least one child placed in the care system, with the aim of trying to not let that happen again. And the previously mentioned £15 million integrated care funding will be also used to support the delivery of prevention and early intervention work highlighted in the improving outcomes for children work programme. And a regular topic of discussion at the ministerial advisory group has been better access to and availability of therapeutic support for care-experienced children.

I was fortunate enough to be invited to speak at the launch of a joint report produced by the NSPCC and Voices from Care about the emotional and mental well-being of looked-after children, and I know there are some very important recommendations from this report, and I look forward to hearing their advice on the action that is needed.

So, to finish, I want to emphasise that there is a lot of good work going on around Wales. We must be scrutinised, so I welcome that scrutiny, but I think we have to acknowledge that our local authority colleagues are committed and do work very hard for the interests of the children. We are a small, compact nation, which makes it relatively easy for us to learn from each other, so it's very important that the good practice is able to spread around Wales. We here in this Chamber, we are all corporate parents to care-experienced children and young people; they are our responsibility throughout Wales. So, I do hope the Member will agree that the aims of the Welsh Government are to do our utmost to look after children who are in these difficult situations. We want to reduce the number of children who are in care, and we want to do our very best as a Government to ensure that they have the best possible opportunity in life. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Thank you very much, and that brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you.

The meeting ended at 18:45.