First of all, Llywydd, can I pay tribute to the work of retained firefighters in all parts of Wales? They provide an essential service. They do so in the way that Gareth Bennett has said, often as part of other work that they do. We want to emphasise to those employers the public service that those people provide, and to try to persuade them to make their contribution as well by making it easy for people employed in those circumstances to be released in those emergencies when their services are needed, and to think of that as a contribution that they, as employers, make, and that's both public sector employers and private employers as well, to regard that as part of their corporate social responsibility, as it's usually described.

More generally, as the Member will know, the fact that there are fewer fires in Wales, and that the fire service has succeeded to the extent that it has in preventing problems from arising, inevitably produces some challenges to retaining the workforce that has been there in the past when their primary task is in decline. What we have wanted to do in Wales is to find other ways in which we can deploy the talents and the skills of those people, particularly looking for ways in which they can assist other emergency services, and the health service in particular.