Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:35 pm on 2 April 2019.
The Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee began its scrutiny of the Legislation (Wales) Bill last December, and, during December and January, we held a public consultation to inform our work. Throughout January, we heard oral evidence from a number of stakeholders, and we're grateful to the Assembly's outreach team who also interviewed a number of stakeholders on behalf of the committee, and we'd like to thank all those who've contributed to our work.
We make a number of recommendations throughout our report, some of which have been commented on by the Counsel General today, which we believe will strengthen the legislation and its implementation. We welcome the proposals in the Bill and we believe it has the potential, as I've said, to contribute to the Welsh Government's aim of improving the accessibility of Welsh law, although there are some comments on the issue of accessibility I will make in due course. For that reason, we recommended that the National Assembly agrees the general principles of the Bill, which is our recommendation 2. However, it's clear to us that the additional non-legislative measures, such as ensuring the availability of legal commentary on Welsh law and educating the public about Welsh law, must form a central role in improving its accessibility, and I recognise the, I think, common agreement from the Counsel General on these points. Therefore, we recommended that the Counsel General should clarify how we will make non-legislative measures a central part of improving the accessibility of Welsh law, which is our recommendation 4. And, again, I welcome the Counsel General's comments on that.
Turning to our recommendation 6, as a piece of innovative legislation, timely and robust evaluation will be critical to its success. Our recommendation 6 said that the Counsel General should commit to a review of the legislation at the midway point of the first Assembly term in which legislation takes effect—that is, by the end of 2023. Moving on, we're generally content with the provision in Part 1 of the Bill regarding the accessibility of Welsh law. However, we agree with the views expressed by some stakeholders that a clearer narrative is needed regarding the meaning of 'accessibility of Welsh law'. We believe this will be vital in facilitating robust and transparent evaluation of the success of Part 1 of the Bill. As such, our recommendation 7 said that the Counsel General should, during this Stage 1 debate, provide a clearer explanation of what is meant by 'the accessibility of Welsh law', and I welcome the comments from the Counsel General on that, which refer to the issues of clarity and availability, and also recognising there's a broader aspect to the whole issue of accessibility that needs to be developed. Certainly, within the committee, I think our consideration was accessibility in yet a slightly further and broader concept—that is, not just the clarity and availability of the law, but the accessibility in real practical terms by the citizens of Wales. I was very interested—I'm going slightly off message at the moment—in terms of the comments that were made by Lord Simon in 1949 during the Legal Aid and Advice Bill. There were some very, very positive comments made at that time about what the purpose to accessibility was, and just to read this one section here, where he said:
'Lastly, I would say what I feel most deeply—that if we are aiming at a true democracy in this country, it is not enough to boast about the language of Magna Carta; it is not enough to say that our Judges are impartial; it is not enough to say that people may trust to the fair administration of British law. If we want to make this country a real democracy we must take steps to secure that these principles of justice, protection and remedy are available to all people alike, and that it does not depend on whether they are personally able to afford it.'
I think the Counsel General will recognise that there is a broader concern about the accessibility of law, which is something I'm sure he will address, and we as a legislature, with our own laws and our legal system, will have to address in terms of the real accessibility of access to the law—the empowerment of citizens, which seems to me is a fundamental part of that.
Turning back to my script, I'd like to turn to our recommendation 8. Under section 2(1), the Welsh Ministers and Counsel General will be required to prepare a programme of accessibility. We've recommended they should also be under a duty to implement such a programme to ensure its delivery. We've also recommended that the Bill should be amended so that proposed activities that are intended to promote awareness and understanding of Welsh law should be included as a duty under section 2(3), rather than being discretionary under section 2(4), which is our recommendation 9.
Our recommendation 10 states that section 2(7) of the Bill should be amended so that the Counsel General is required to report to the National Assembly on an annual basis on the progress made under an accessibility programme. We believe that this would provide the Counsel General not only with an opportunity to update the Assembly on proposed activities, which are progressing well, but also those that have not or will not be taken forward, and, following the laying of such a report, we envisage that we would invite the Counsel General to attend a meeting of the committee at which the report could be considered and scrutinised. And I'm glad that the Counsel General has accepted the main thrust of these recommendations: the four reports per term and to review the effectiveness. So, that is very much welcome. Our recommended amendments to section 2 of the Bill would, in our view, ensure that the bold steps that this current Welsh Government has taken towards achieving a more accessible Welsh statute book are not, in any way, diminished in the future.
Turning now to consolidation and codification, the Counsel General's plans for consolidating Welsh laws are welcome. We agree that consolidated legislation will not only help the people of Wales to understand Welsh law, it will also help those practising law. However, we believe that the uncertainty that exists regarding codification does need addressing. We recommended that the Counsel General should issue a statement clarifying his proposals and intentions for codifying Welsh law.
Moving on to Part 2 of the Bill, we are generally content with the provisions in Part 2 of the Bill regarding the interpretation and operation of Welsh legislation, subject to our concerns expressed below. We believe that the Bill's intended application has been drawn appropriately. Nevertheless, because of a potential for confusion, we believe that there would be merit in evaluating the impact of Part 2 of the Bill. This evaluation should form a key part of the review, which the Counsel General has committed to undertake. And, finally, I would like to briefly mention our conclusions relating to how the Bill may present an opportunity to make provision about the interpretation of bilingual legislation. We came to the conclusion that the interpretation of bilingual legislation should be a responsibility of the courts. The Counsel General has told us that it is his preference to restate the equal status provision in section 156(1) of the Government of Wales Act 2006 in this Bill, and we see no reason for us to disagree with this approach. However, we ask the Counsel General to provide further detail and clarity on his proposal to restate that provision. I'm grateful for the comments with regard to the proposed amendment, but, in terms of the dictionary of new legislative terms and the use of the Welsh language within that, I think that is innovative; it is a marker of the progress of this institution as a legislature. And this legislation makes a very significant contribution and is a very significant milestone in that progress. Thank you, Llywydd.