2. What recent discussions has the Minister had regarding the future of the Trostre plant in Llanelli? 297

We continue to have very regular discussions with Tata Steel on a range of issues including, of course, the proposed venture. 

I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer and reassured to hear that he is in regular contact. I'm sure I speak for everyone on all sides of this Chamber when I reflect the deep concern at the reports that Tata may be required to sell its Trostre site in order to facilitate the proposed merger with Thyssenkrupp.

Of course, we faced, in the Trostre plant, a situation similar to this before, when the business was owned by Corus, and we were in a situation where the workers in Llanelli were directly competing with a plant doing exactly the same work in the Netherlands. At that time, supported by the Welsh Government, the workforce and the local management were able to demonstrate that their profitability, their skill levels, were actually higher than those of the business—the competing plant—in the Netherlands. And I would like to seek the Minister's reassurance today that he'll do everything he can with the workforce and with the local management to ensure that this very high level of skill and these very important jobs—over 600 direct jobs and many, many more, of course, in the supply chain—are not lost to Wales.

It is, of course, of an importance beyond Llanelli, because the Trostre plant is a very important customer for Port Talbot. So, there would potentially be a knock-on effect there if the plant was sold in such a way as it was sold potentially to be closed down, as was the concern in the past. So, I hope that the Minister can reassure us that he will do everything he can to retain these really important jobs in Llanelli for the impact on the local economy, but also the economy of Wales more broadly. 

Can I thank the Member for the important question today, and assure her that we will do everything we can do to ensure that there is a sustainable steel-making sector in Wales, indeed just as we've been doing so since March 2016? I'm very pleased that the Member also identified the fact that Trostre is still a profitable site and that the Welsh Government has been instrumental in supporting the 650 steelworkers at the facility.

I think it's very important to say, Dirprwy Lywydd, that the site could not be sold off in order to close it. It would have to be sold in a way that ensures it has a viable future. I would not wish to speculate too much on what's been reported today, due to, of course, this being a commercially confidential matter between two companies. But I can confirm that the First Minister has spoken today with Hans Fischer and, as a consequence of the discussion that has taken place, we are cautiously optimistic that the sale will be approached in a way that secures the long-term future of the facility. 

Thank you very much for the question today, Helen Mary, and for your response there, Minister. Obviously, I find this upsetting, as my grandfather and my mother worked in Trostre for many years, but it is Port Talbot that is my primary concern at the moment, and Helen Mary mentioned the role that Trostre plays in Port Talbot's supply chain, if you like. 

I wonder whether there's been any work—I suppose it might be a little bit early for this—to try and map how the supply chain is likely to be affected by this, particularly within the city deal area, because, of course, one of the pluses for locating a steel innovation centre there within the city deal series of projects is the concentration of steel production, steel processing and steel fabrication. So, I would really like some reassurance that this is unlikely to, or will not, in fact, affect the ambitions within the city deal relating to steel. 

The merger, as we understand it now, looks quite different from that which we were anticipating, and I think that justifies the caution of many Members in this Chamber at the time that the merger was announced. At the time, you said, Minister, that during that period of the merger, you expected to be able to take forward your discussions on the support that Welsh Government can give Tata insofar as the Welsh-based operations are concerned, and that you would welcome an announcement of an extension of the employment pact to 2026, with a commitment to seek to avoid compulsory redundancies as a result of the joint venture. I heard your reply to Helen Mary, but can you give me some indication of what progress the Welsh Government has made on getting those commitments? Have you had any specific commitment that any jobs that might be lost from Trostre will be redistributed within the Tata family, preferably near home?

And then, finally, on the same sort of point, support for Tata overall is connected to their commitment to safeguard a certain number of jobs. I'm looking for reassurance here that the announcement today is not likely to delay any development at the Port Talbot site. I'm thinking in particular of the power plant there. Because all these things are interlinked and all are conditional on a certain level of employment being maintained. Obviously, I wouldn't want this announcement today to put at risk more positive plans for other parts of the Tata estate. Thank you.

Can I thank Suzy Davies for her questions as well, and say that this won't delay consideration of further support for Port Talbot and further support for skills training provision, should it be requested, in the months to come? The Member is absolutely right; £60 million was put on the table in order to support steel facilities in Wales in March of 2016, and £17 million pounds has been drawn down today, including, of course, a very significant amount of money for Port Talbot and the blast furnace in order to make sure that it's a more competitive facility than it was in the past.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I think it would be perhaps helpful for Members if I were to circulate a note on conditionality for Welsh Government support. Clearly, there are some issues that cannot be disclosed for commercial confidentiality purposes. However, I would like Members to be as knowledgeable as possible on how we are tying Welsh Government or taxpayer support to very strict conditions to ensure that as many jobs are protected for as long as possible.

The Member is absolutely right to raise the question of the potential impact on the ecosystem within Wales. Now, the Commission will make a decision on the proposed venture by 5 June, and at the point of a decision being made, we'll be able to ascertain what—if, indeed, any—impact there will be on the ecosystem. Of course, it's worth noting that Trostre is profitable and it is competitive, because it has been sourcing steel from Port Talbot. Given that it would have to be sold as a viable concern and as a competitive business, I would surely expect that it would go on sourcing steel from the facility that has helped to make it a profitable concern.

Minister, I hope your last point is true, because, as you say, it becomes a separate commercial entity and they will look for the cheapest deal they can get, not necessarily the best deal they can get. Therefore, clearly, the implications for Port Talbot are serious and our concerns are for Port Talbot, but also for the workers in Trostre, because it's a package—it's a whole package across Wales—Tata in Shotton, Port Talbot, Llanwern and in Trostre. It works together as a package. We've raised this many times, and I've raised with you many times the concerns that a joint venture could have. In 2016, we came out of the woods, but we hadn't cleared ourselves from the global challenges yet, and this is another one.

I do worry about this, because it's not just Trostre being mentioned; Tata are also divesting themselves of Cogent—the Orb works in Newport. It seems that Tata are divesting themselves of resources more than ThyssenKrupp in this joint-venture approach. So, what discussions are you going to have with Tata? You mentioned Hans Fischer, but perhaps we need to go above Hans Fischer to see where we actually have Tata's future in this place. Because I'm deeply concerned that when Bimlendra Jha left his position, there was no UK representation, effectively, for Tata in the UK, and particularly in Wales; it's left then, perhaps, to Martin Brunnock to be the senior person here. So, we need to have a look at having discussions with Tata in India, perhaps, to discuss what their future plans are for the industry in Wales as a whole, because this comes as a package.

Also, have you had discussions at all with the Commission? Because this is down to the Commission rules and looking at this whole approach of the joint venture and the monopoly side of things. So, have you had any opportunity to speak to the Commission at all in relation to looking at this project?

I fully appreciate the investment that the Welsh Government has given to steel over the last few years. It's been very beneficial. It's actually been one of the reasons we still have a steel industry here in Wales. But it is important to keep that industry, and that we pressurise Tata to actually ensure that all its commitments to Welsh steel continue, and that if it is going to sell—I got from your answer to Helen Mary Jones that it is going to sell Trostre, it seems, or that's the impression I got from your answer—we need to ensure that contracts that are in place with Port Talbot stay in place with Port Talbot, so they don't go elsewhere, and so we keep the industry here in Wales.

Can I thank David Rees for his questions and for his ongoing support for the steel industry in Wales? I should point out that, in terms of discussions that are taking place at the European Commission, this is, of course, a confidential negotiation between the European Commission and the joint venture partners, so it wouldn't be the place of Government to get involved in discussions with the European Commission. Our role has always been to create the right environment in which steel-making operations in Wales can be competitive and have a strong, bright future.

In terms of the question on whether Trostre would go on sourcing its steel from Port Talbot, of course, this will be a key concern of discussions that are going to take place between ourselves and Tata in the weeks to come. I am seeking discussions with the heads of Tata India's business, including, of course, with Bimlendra Jha, who's now returned to India, but with whom we still enjoy a very constructive relationship.

The joint venture is a 50:50 relationship between ThyssenKrupp and Tata Steel, and so we expect any pain to be shared equally in terms of any sale of assets. But I must stress again that the sale of Trostre would have to be conducted on the basis of it being a viable business in a competitive market, and I believe that that was stressed in the e-mail from Joe Gallagher to the workforce of Trostre just yesterday evening—that is absolutely correct.

Now, in terms of other steelworks in Wales, David Rees mentioned the Cogent Orb Electrical Steels business in Newport, and we are continuing to work very closely with Tata on that particular facility, of course. We have also helped in the successful sale of other concerns by Tata. For example, we helped to secure a future for its Afon Tinplate site. Now, on that occasion, we were able to ensure that there was a successful outcome and that all 43 members of staff were able to continue in their employment at the Swansea site, which now operates as part of the Tinmasters brand. Of course there will be anxiety at Trostre right now, but I am confident that with this Welsh Government continuing to focus relentlessly on creating the right environment in which steel facilities can succeed in Wales, those people employed at Trostre can enjoy a long-term future in the sector.

Thank you very much, Minister.