5. What can the Welsh Government do to stop the UK from leading the European Union on providing subsidies to fossil fuels? OAQ53791

Llywydd, the Welsh Government uses our own powers to limit the extraction of fossil fuels in Wales. UK subsidies are provided using reserved powers. We continue to lobby the UK Government to invest instead in renewable energy generation, where Wales possesses such an abundance of natural resources.

Of course, these subsidies come at a price, because the suppression of the fuel duty rises that were due to be taking place for climate change reasons have meant that Governments have had to forgo a sum of money equivalent to twice the amount of money we pay for doctors and nurses in this country. So, we are talking about very large sums of money. And it seems to me that it's completely contradictory to charge the consumption of gas and electric in people's homes with 5 per cent taxes and to charge the insulation of people's homes, which will reduce the amount they'll have to use in the way of electric and gas, by 20 per cent. These are, obviously, really important issues as we move forward in how we tackle the climate emergency, and whilst I hear what you say about endeavouring to influence the neanderthal UK Government, what can we do in Wales to ensure that we have a level playing field to encourage people to invest in renewables rather than fossil fuels?

I thank the Member for that. As I said in my first answer, the Welsh Government already uses our own powers in relation to fossil fuel licensing to withhold support for new energy mineral extraction. The European Commission report that highlighted the UK's subsidy of fossil fuels also refers to the importance of demand reduction, energy efficiency and investment in renewables, and the Welsh Government directly plays a part in all of those things, using powers and resources that we have ourselves.

It nevertheless remains the case, Llywydd, that fuel subsidies, taxes and financial incentives are complex and largely reserved matters. What we want to see is use of the substantial financial and legislative levers in the hands of the UK Government put to work to drive down the use of fossil fuels and drive up the use of renewables—not just in wind and solar, but in marine energy particularly, where the failure to deliver a 'contract for difference' mechanism is inhibiting the growth of this vital Welsh possibility.

Surely the UK Government has been taxing rather than subsidising carbon use. Will the First Minister not congratulate George Osborne on his carbon tax, which has cut coal use by three quarters, or congratulate the UK Government rather than call it neanderthal, as UK carbon emissions have fallen faster than almost anywhere else in the world, by around 40 per cent since 1990 compared to only 17 per cent in Wales, or indeed congratulate the first world leader to campaign on climate change, who was Margaret Thatcher? 

Llywydd, the European Commission's report to which Jenny Rathbone drew attention highlighted the fact that the UK Government subsidises fossil fuels in the United Kingdom at a level far in excess of any other European nation. I see nothing at all to congratulate them on on that record.

I'm sure that people will be shocked by what the First Minister said earlier in response to Adam Price—that is, just 24 hours after declaring a climate emergency, that you say that that didn't necessarily mean that you needed a change of policy. Now, one policy that I would clearly want to see implemented is more encouragement for disinvestment, because there is much money in public sector pensions, particularly, invested in fossil fuel companies. I had a letter from the Minister for finance recently that said the Government would welcome local authority pension investors considering these issues. Can we have a far more unambiguous statement from Government, making it entirely clear that, if you look at the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, these kinds of investments should not be happening?

The Minister is willing to give more information to the Member, and other Members who have an interest in this.