5. Debate on the Public Accounts Committee Report: 'The Welsh Government's relationship with Pinewood'

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:53 pm on 1 May 2019.

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Photo of Nick Ramsay Nick Ramsay Conservative 3:53, 1 May 2019

Yes, I think the issue here is that there are going to be individual circumstances in each case, and what we've agreed on as a committee is that the procedures in place in the Welsh Government should be robust enough so that those individual circumstances can be taken into account, so that if there's any suggestion that a survey is needed, it should happen, and if a survey can be completely ruled out, then that can happen as well. But, clearly, something went wrong in this case. But, thanks, Mike.

Bethan Sayed, I know your committee did a fair bit of work in this area. We were happy to take up the request to look further at it, as you know, from the public interest—in terms of the public value-for-money point of view. I'm glad that you referred it to us. You made an interesting point in your contribution that the model being relied on by the Welsh Government wasn't suited to Wales. I'm not sure whether we did make that point in our report—it was hinted at in our evidence—but I think it's an issue that is probably at the heart of this, actually, that, certainly, if we're going to try and undertake these ventures in the future in encouraging the film and tv industry in Wales, then it's important that the model that's being used is suited to Wales. We often talk about devolution bringing benefit from being suited to Wales, but it does seem to be, as we plough further into devolution, that sometimes we're not using models that are suitable, so that's an area that needs to be looked at, so I'm glad you raised it. Welsh Government perhaps shouldn't be expected to have all the necessary experience and expertise in these areas at the outset of this sort of venture, but they need to have the capacity to know where the gaps are and to try and fill that knowledge.

Suzy Davies, again, you were concerned about the lack of transparency and the issue of commercial confidentiality, which crops up again and again in our debates in this building. I think you said it is not a cloak of invisibility, and you mentioned Harry Potter as well, continuing the film and media references. Well said, Suzy. Yes, we need to make sure that the cloak of invisibility, that commercial confidentiality isn't used in that way and that it's used in ways that are appropriate.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for his very encouraging response today, and for the way he responded to the recommendations—indeed, for the Welsh Government acceptance of most of our recommendations? As I said, I recognise there are logical reasons for the rejection of recommendation 8, but I would respectfully ask that the spirit of that recommendation is adhered to in the future and all the points I made earlier—that the Welsh Government knows if a survey is needed, if it isn't needed, and we're not in this position again in the future.

Can I thank the Minister as well for his reference to Creative Wales? I won't go too much into this, because you made a statement on that yesterday, and that's an example of a strategy that's being pursued and being developed at the moment, so that's exactly the sort of area where we would hope that the lessons that are being learned here don't just go into a document on a dusty shelf somewhere, but they're actually incorporated into current, modern policy making, so that what we all want—improvement in the situation in the future—does actually happen.

So, in summary, Deputy Presiding Officer, can I thank everyone who contributed to today's debate, to the Members of the Assembly, also members, specifically, of the culture committee, who have brought a valuable aspect to today's debate? Can I also thank the Deputy Minister for his response? There are wider issues at stake here, or, rather, lessons to be learned across the whole of the Welsh Government, not just in one department, and there is a balance to be struck. We certainly, as a committee, didn't want to see creativity stifled, we certainly didn't want to shut the door on future film and tv opportunities for Wales and productions being made here in Wales and, indeed, here in Cardiff. So, we were very careful in the way that we framed the report, and I hope that that has been appreciated. But that balance does have to be struck right. At the end of the day, the taxpayer's interests also have to be safeguarded and we need to make sure in the future that when these sorts of decisions are undertaken, there is the right experience, the right expertise—if not there at the start, brought in-house into the Welsh Government—so that the Welsh taxpayer can have confidence that public money is being effectively spent.