6. Debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee Report: 'Wales' future relationship with Europe and the world'

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:20 pm on 1 May 2019.

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Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 4:20, 1 May 2019

Minister, in your response to the report, you described Wales as a European nation. Now, for much of our recent history, this would have been a contested description of our country, and it certainly remains a highly political description of our country. At one time—it takes us back, of course, to the days of Owain Glyndŵr and his seeking ambassadors from the papacy and elsewhere to recognise the state that he was seeking to create in our country at that time. But also, of course, because it defines Wales as a European nation without reference to the state of the United Kingdom, within which we are today. So it's a very political statement, and it's a statement, of course, that I welcome.

But it also is a statement that speaks of a much higher ambition and a much wider vision. Mark Reckless's contribution spoke about the almost transactional approach taken by the Basque Country, and that's a perfectly fair and reasonable approach to take, and I make no criticism of that. But the ambition that I believe the  Government here has in mind, and I hope it will express, is one that sees that transactional relationship between ourselves and others as the blocks upon which we will build, as a foundation and not the totality of an international role, and the role that we wish Wales to play on the international stage. 

In listening to this debate, I'm reminded of the conversation that we had with the New Zealand ambassador during the visit to Brussels. There, he was very, very clear: the international trade agreements that New Zealand seek to make are the basis upon which they seek to do other things. Certainly, you need to have all the arrangements in place to do trade, to make commercial agreements with different partners and organisations, but is that the totality of your vision? Is that the totality of what you seek to achieve on the international stage? For them it was not, and for us it must not be, either. The example used by the ambassador was that of sustainability. Perhaps after our debate later this afternoon, this is something we could also use to define a Welsh contribution to international affairs in the future. Others have spoken about the contribution we could make in terms of minority language and culture policy. That's something of which some of us already have experience, and I think it's something that we can also do. So I hope we have that ambition and vision. 

But let me say this, also: that will mean a change of culture in this place, and particularly for opposition parties, let me say. Too often, we have seen a political culture here where we count the pennies and we do not understand the vision. I want to see the Welsh Government investing in the network of offices it has and the network of relationships it develops, and that means that you can't be on the international stage without physically being on the international stage. So, rather than opposition parties spending time putting in freedom of information requests and asking for the cost of flights, perhaps it would be better that we take a more mature approach, where we seek to hold the Government to account for what it achieves and not simply where it goes. And I hope that that would be a far more mature approach to the debate that we have now.

In closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, I was lucky enough to enjoy—it turned out to be a 1-1 draw, and I think we got away with it—Wales playing Mexico in Pasadena, in the Rose Bowl, and some of you will know the stadium, across in California last year. It was a fantastic event—80,000 people watching Wales playing football. It doesn't happen very often. It hasn't always happened in my lifetime, I have to say. That is an opportunity for us to build a presence, to build an idea of what Wales is and what Wales can be, and the role that Wales wants to play. We have an opportunity to play a role with the soft power that has already been spoken about that not everybody has. We'll be, I hope, playing and winning the World Cup in Japan in a few months' time. I hope the Welsh Government will be maximising the impact that we can make from that as well. I hope that we will be able to see the opportunity of playing a full role on the international stage.

I'll finish with these remarks, Deputy Presiding Officer. One of the issues we need to define—and this is in the report and I'd be interested to understand what the Minister says in response—is our relationship with the United Kingdom Government. I believe the relationship with the United Kingdom Government can be a very powerful and positive relationship. We often criticise the UK Government here—and I do probably more than most—but the network of offices and the way that the Foreign Office works is a very, very powerful tool for us to use, and I believe that we should be working closely with the Foreign Office and working with the United Kingdom Government to maximise the impact of the network of embassies and consulates around the world so that we are able to maximise the impact that we can make for Wales wherever we may be.