Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Leanne Wood. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Do you think it's acceptable for rough-sleepers to have their only shelter, i.e. their tent, taken from them and their few belongings thrown into a van and taken elsewhere?

No, of course I don't think it's acceptable to do that. I think she's probably referring to the clearances that Cardiff council have seen recently. She and I became involved in a social media chain on that, which I have to say didn't always show social media to its best advantage, certainly in terms of some of the trolling I had as a result of that.

I have met with Cardiff council on several occasions subsequent to that, and, actually, also with Cardiff prison, to see what we can do to get the pathways better for people coming out of prison. In those instance, I'm assured by Cardiff council that the homeless engagement team have been out to meet with all of those people on at least two, if not more, occasions. 

Minister, I'm stunned that you're not prepared to condemn this practice. We've seen earlier this week that Juha Kaakinen, one of those people involved in the Helsinki Housing First scheme, has accused the Welsh Government of a lack of vision and a lack of focus in terms of ending homelessness. It's over a year since your Government said it was reviewing priority need, and that's despite every organisation working in the sector, and your own Government's White Paper from 2012 saying that you needed to abolish priority need. It's almost a year since Crisis published the most detailed plan to end homelessness that is available, with recommendations for all Governments, but we haven't seen any commitment from the Welsh Government in implementing those recommendations, despite the fact that you would save money from doing so. When are we going to see real action on tackling homelessness and the implementation of that plan?

Well, I just don't think it's true to say that we've seen no commitment at all. We have a task and finish group, chaired by Crisis itself, looking at our Housing First pilots. It is the policy of this Government that we roll out Housing First. We have to roll out Housing First in a way that means that we give the right lifeline to people, with the right support around them, in the right way. It's impossible to just replicate the Finnish system. And on the gentleman in question, who featured on a programme on the BBC on Monday, which I'm sure she saw, as did I—I have had no contact with that gentleman, and I'd welcome such contact, but he did not have the policy context for Wales right. One of the issues driving homelessness in Wales is the universal credit system, over which I, unfortunately, have no control. So, we have a system in which we have been praised the world over for our preventative programme in maintaining people in housing. We are continuing to do that. We have managed to hold the tide at 65 per cent of homelessness prevented in Wales. We're working very hard on the rest of it, and, of course, Housing First is our preferred option. You cannot just turn the ship of state around in two weeks and replicate an entire system from Finland. So, we have to make sure that our pilots work, that they reach the most vulnerable, and that we do it properly, so that we get a system that's sustainable and makes homelessness rare, brief and non-recurring, which is obviously the aim of all of us. 

Two weeks? Minister, time and time again, we see your Government delaying and dragging its heels on even basic social justice issues, whether that's homelessness, air pollution or banning unfair letting agent fees. We only see action several years after the issue comes to your attention—endless task and finish groups, which don't end up finishing anything, reviews that tell us what we already know, and finding 'balances' that have to be struck between the rights of vulnerable individuals and large organisations, which don't like the fact that rough-sleepers are ruining their retail experience. Is this what twenty-first century socialism is all about?

Well, Leanne, I'm really sorry to see you descend into that kind of hyperbole, because that is not at all where we are and you well know it. I’ll be sure to pass on your thoughts on the task and finish group to the hardworking experts who are helping us with that policy. I’m sure they’ll be really helped by that kind of attitude.

Our attitude is entirely different to that. We want to roll out the best solution for people, as fast as possible, so that that solution is efficient and effective in dealing with their problems. This is not about money; this is about social justice and making sure that people have the unique solution to their problem that they richly deserve—not some one-size-fits-all solution that we can just slap on to the system and say, ‘There we are; we’ve done it.’ That’s not what we’re about. We’re about making sure that each individual receives the social justice that they deserve and a system that supports them in maintaining their home once we get them into it, and supports their mental health, substance misuse, loneliness, post-traumatic stress disorder—all the myriad of problems that people experience when they experience homelessness.

Getting them into the house isn't the problem—sustaining them there and making sure that they have all of the services necessary to sustain that tenancy into the future, including the right packages of support, financially—benefits and so on—is essential. I’m not going to be bounced into doing something fast, when what we want to do is do it properly.

Conservatives' spokesperson, Mark Isherwood.

Diolch, Llywydd. My questions will focus on your role as Welsh Government lead on policy and relations with the armed forces and veterans in Wales.

In February, I hosted an event in the Assembly, celebrating the launch of the first national Welsh Veterans Awards, celebrating and rewarding armed forces veterans or ex-forces personnel that have made the transition to civilian life and have gone above and beyond and excelled in their relevant fields and will act as role models for future service leaders. The award teams were looking for people who, even during the most difficult periods, have excelled in business, fitness, sport and the wider community. They e-mailed me last week to say they'd just released their shortlist of finalists for the awards at the Village Hotel Club, Swansea, on 26 June, sponsored by Flintshire-based TASC Holdings Ltd and in support of ABF The Soldiers' Charity. What engagement has, or will the Welsh Government have of this positive initiative?

I'm not sure I know that much about that specific initiative, but we’ve had good, positive initiatives from right across our contacts with the armed forces. The First Minister and I met with the brigadier for Wales very recently to discuss our continued relationship with the armed forces here in Wales and what we can do to mutually assist each other to get the best out of that relationship.

We have a long, proud tradition of supplying people into the armed forces. I’m very pleased to say that I was recently at a parade of the Welsh guards through Swansea, which I was very proud to attend. So, I’m afraid I don’t know the specifics of what he just set out. I’d be very glad to know more about it. It sounds great and I’m very happy to have more involvement in that, if he wants to supply the details to me.

Great. As I say, they want to inspire our future service leavers that great things can happen.

In February, the UK Defence Secretary announced that service leavers and their families will now be able to access military accommodation for up to a year after leaving, giving them more time to look for permanent accommodation as they transition back to civilian life, where housing is clearly key to armed forces veterans and their families.

We know that, in Wales, First Choice Housing Association and Alabaré Wales Homes for Veterans have led on housing for ex-forces personnel and their families, but how do you respond to concern that the Welsh Government’s housing referral pathway for veterans doesn’t address the concerns of how housing officers can provide the necessary support to manage the complex cases of rehomed veterans with better integration of housing, health and care services?

We have a pathway specifically for people coming out of the armed forces. I'm very keen to make sure that that works and to have better involvement with armed forces personnel in the year leading up to their leaving the armed forces. So, I'd very much welcome better involvement in that specific process for my officials. So, what we want to have is a seamless pathway so that we can hand people on to the right agencies in the area. We're very keen to make sure that we maintain local connections so people can go back to any community that they feel they have a local connection with, or indeed if they've made a life as part of being in the armed forces quarters somewhere else, that they're able to maintain a connection with family and friends. My understanding is that people transition best out of the armed forces when they are transitioning into a community happy to receive them and in which they have a lot of connections. So, I'm very happy to work with the Member if he wants to put me in touch with anyone who's got concerns in that area to make sure the pathway is correct.

Just on that, I'm reminded by the Deputy Minister that she's launching the Welsh Government's covenant annual report tomorrow, which has had a lot of input from the armed forces expert group. So, we're very delighted to be part of that as well. 

Well, I hope your response means that you will now actually address this within the pathway with your officials.

Given your previous response, you may have heard of Project 360°—a partnership between Age Cymru, the veterans charity Woody's Lodge, and Age Alliance Wales—providing a welcoming space for armed service veterans, recent leavers and reservists, funded by the UK Chancellor's aged veterans fund, supporting older veterans across Wales.

I recently received correspondence from Age Cymru regarding a Conwy carer talking about the extra challenges she faces caring for her veteran husband with vascular dementia. She said that while he visits social groups for veterans, such as Woody's Lodge in Colwyn Bay, where he feels comfortable enough to chat with fellow visitors about their time in the service, they've also attended non-veteran support groups, which don't meet his needs. Although he enjoyed the exercise classes, he didn't want to chat to anyone there that he felt he had nothing in common with. He said, 'I would love to see more veteran-based activities as they offer such person-focused support.' And Project 360° suspects there may thousands of people like this in Wales, with full-time carers striving to meet the needs of their loved ones with chronic conditions and the added complication of being a veteran who struggles to interact with civvy street. How do you propose to address that concern as you look ahead with your colleagues in related departments? 

So, this is something the Deputy Minister's been taking forward. She's reminded me, once more, that she's launching the report at Woody's Lodge to see first-hand what can be done as part of making sure that veterans do receive the sorts of services that will allow them to have the kind of experiences that Mark Isherwood has just set out in his answer. I'm very happy to get the Deputy Minister to write to the Member with any details of any other projects that she's been looking at recently,FootnoteLink and if he wants to supply to me the individual details of the constituent that he mentions, I'd be more than happy to look into that as well. 

Information further to Plenary

Question 3—but David Rowlands is not in the Chamber to ask his question No. 3. So, question 4—Paul Davies.  

Question 3 [OAQ53868] not asked.