6. Statement by the Minister for Housing and Local Government: The Welsh Government Response to the Building Safety Expert Group's Roadmap

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:23 pm on 21 May 2019.

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Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 5:23, 21 May 2019

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I didn't have the opportunity when we last discussed this matter in March to put on record my personal congratulations to the Dirprwy Lywydd for the way that she led on this agenda through her private Member's legislation. She's rolling her eyes at me because she gets tired of us congratulating her about this, but I actually think it is something that we shouldn't forget—that it is through some individuals with really strong personal knowledge that has actually enabled us to take some of the lead here.

I'd associate myself with some of the concerns that other Members have raised. I was with Mike Hedges on the whole 'in principle' thing, but I have heard what the Minister has said and on this side we are reassured. If I can associate myself as well with what others have said about giving our commitment to if there is any way in which we can help you to escalate the speed of this, Minister. We appreciate of course that this is a very complex matter, but I suppose I would say that a point will be reached when perhaps it isn't possible to meet consensus and some people will simply have to be told. You cannot necessarily expect turkeys to vote for Christmas, so there will be times when with some people, some sectors and some bits of some sectors you will just have to take that lead. We give you the assurance from this side of the Chamber that you will have our support in doing that. 

Several of the specific points I wished to raise have already been touched on, but if I can just come back to the issue briefly of retrofitting sprinklers. We fully appreciate the need for a campaign, for persuasion, but will the Minister be giving any consideration eventually to mandating this? I realise that it is complicated, I realise it will take time, and nobody's underestimating the costs involved, and I have been pleased to hear the Minister say that there is some consideration being given to how some funding might be brought forward. But, in the end, there may be people who will not take advantage of all those voluntary opportunities and, from this side, we would like to see the Government ultimately, perhaps as a second or third step, considering legislation if that is necessary.

I was very pleased to hear what the Minister had to say in her statement with regard to the residents' voice, and very pleased to see the work together with, in particular, the social housing sector. However, my concern would be that it is not always the good landlords that we need to get working on this. So, again, I'd ask the Minister whether she will consider at some point mandating a process. We know the terrible tragedy of Grenfell arguably could have been avoided had residents been listened to sooner, and it will not necessarily be the good landlords and the social landlords that we have to take on board with this.

We very strongly welcome the bringing in of the fire and rescue service as statutory consultees in the planning process, but is it the Minister's intention that that will be backed up by fire safety being a single material ground, potentially, for rejecting planning? Because it's one thing to be a statutory consultee, it's then a question of how much weight that consultation is given. I very much hope that that will be the case.

We're also interested to know what might be able to be done—. As this planning process is going through, there will of course be some potentially quite big developments that are happening before that can become mandatory. So, is there anything that the Minister can do, working with local authorities, perhaps, to try and encourage developers to take advice from the fire and rescue service as part of the planning process, even if it will obviously take some time to legislate?

Finally, we'd like to say just how very pleased we are that the Minister is moving at pace to ban combustible cladding. You have, of course, our complete support on that, Minister. This is such an important agenda. I think I have heard everything that you've said to David Melding, to John Griffiths and to others about needing to get this right, but I think from this side, we would like to say we also need to get it done.