4. Will the Commission make a statement on the accessibility of the Senedd to members of the public? OAQ53912

The Commission is committed to ensuring that members of the public are safe when they access the Assembly estate. An essential part of delivering against this commitment is the continual review of security and safety procedures to ensure that they allow us to balance our desire to welcome the public to the estate with our duty to keep everyone safe and ensure that Assembly business can continue uninterrupted. 

Well, I'm grateful to the Llywydd for that answer and, obviously, there is a balance to be made between safety and security and access, but the Llywydd will be aware of an incident on 1 May this year, when there was a very good-natured and very cheerful demonstration by climate change protesters outside this building, just as this Chamber was debating whether or not we would adopt the policy of a climate change emergency. Those protestors then wished to come in to view the debate from the public gallery. The public gallery at the time was largely empty, and many of them were refused admittance to the building. I am not in a position to establish this one way or the other, but it was certainly the impression of some of those people that whether or not they were admitted depended on their appearance, on whether they were perceived to be respectable. Now, I have to tell the Llywydd that some of the people who were allowed in were women who had gone to Greenham Common with me in the 1980s and would be anything but respectable, where I'm sure that some of the younger people who were excluded were quite possibly very respectable citizens. 

But lighthearted comments apart, I am concerned that we should not be making generalisations. I do not understand why there was any fear that those people who were not admitted would have been any kind of risk. The gallery was almost entirely empty, they had come to make representations to this place about a matter that this place was debating. I, and certainly other Members on this bench, feel that it's highly unfortunate that they weren't admitted, and I'd seek the Commission's assurance that, if there is any policy that if you're protesting one minute, you can't become a member of the public observing the proceedings the next, that policy will be changed.

Thank you for the question, and I remember the event. Of course, some Members drew attention to the fact on the day that there were protesters who are also members of the public who were keen to access the Senedd during that debate and to be in the public gallery, and there was space in the public gallery for people to do so.

As I noted in the initial response, this is a matter of balance, of course, between security matters and the need to allow the people of Wales to be able to visit us in a safe manner and to listen to our proceedings here. There is a clear code of conduct for visitors, and one that also deals with protests. The code states that, in order to maintain security and safety, only six delegates from a protest group can be granted access to the inside of the building at any time. As a result, in this case, a delegation of six was given access to the estate, but access was not allowed to other members of the group, as you noted in your question.

On this occasion, during the proceedings, a strategic decision was taken to allow more protestors to enter the Neuadd, but, of course, that was as the afternoon was going on, with the debate having come to an end.

The problem that arose on that day—the fact that a number of Members drew our attention to what was happening, and now your question—. We have asked—I have asked for a review of the policy as it exists currently, and the Commission will look at that in due course. May I ask you, as Members in this Chamber, to draw the attention of the Commissioners from your parties to what you believe is the right balance to strike as we review this policy?

If I can assure you, Helen Mary Jones, we are doing so—we are doing our work in terms of security that treats everybody equally, and I would say, on the whole, we are quite successful in having that balance between security and access to all to visit our Senedd here. If we have got it wrong in the past, then we need to learn from that experience, and I look forward to discussing these issues further so that we can ensure that we are a safe location for people to visit, as well as being a safe place for us and our staff, but also that we're somewhere that’s open, and that our public gallery is as full as it can be on every possible occasion.    

Thank you for the remarks you've made so far, Presiding Officer. It seems to me that as there was absolutely no breach of the law when all of the protests took place in London earlier that week, it seemed absurd to assume that just because they were from Extinction Rebellion there was going to be, in some way, a breach of the peace.

One of the things we don't have in this Parliament that they have in the UK Parliament is the right of Members to have personal visitors, because I tried to ask the security people to allow me to invite several members who I knew personally, who are members of my constituency, to be allowed to attend the debate. That was not granted—firmly, they said, 'No, we've been told that only six people can come in and they've already been allowed in.'

I'm glad you've agreed to invite us to comment on this particular Standing Order, but it seems to me that our commitment has to be to make this Parliament as open as possible, and those who are protesting on the steps probably have an interest in the debate that's occurring on that matter.

Yes, absolutely. Just to reiterate, the current policy is that where there is a protest, six people from that protest are allowed into the Assembly to either have a conversation with whoever they need to have a conversation or to attend any debate here. The number six is in the policy—it's not related to Extinction Rebellion or any protest group, or anybody from anywhere in Wales who is protesting on our steps. But, obviously, we'll learn from the experience and I invite you again to make sure that the Commissioners here who represent you are fully informed of how you want us to strike the balance appropriately in the future.

Thank you.