Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Good afternoon, Minister. I see that you're going to be meeting your Scottish and UK Government higher education ministerial colleagues shortly—you may have already done it, I don't know—to discuss Brexit and the findings of the Augar review. The issue, of course, of funding post-16 education is devolved, but the systems in all these nations support competition between institutions across the UK, and with 40 per cent of Welsh university students already studying in England, with far less traffic coming the other way, I just wondered what your initial thoughts were on the review's findings on Welsh universities and colleges, were they to be implemented in England. 

Just to clarify for the Member, I meet regularly with my counterparts in Scotland and England. We have set up regular quadrilateral meetings at my request. And, despite assurances that were given to me at the last meeting by Minister Skidmore, it is disappointing that his civil servants did not feel able to properly brief my civil servants ahead of the publication of the Augar report, which is disappointing. I am, of course, aware of the contents of the report, and, in my letter to The Times earlier this week, I was very clear that any proposal for reform in England will inform but will not dictate the choices made by the Welsh Government. I am proud that Wales will continue to have the fairest, the most progressive and the most sustainable student support system in the UK, even if the Augar recommendations are implemented fully in England. But, given the chaos in the Government in England, who knows? 

What a warm answer. I wasn't suggesting for a second that we should be following England's lead in this. I just wondered what the impact or what you thought the impact would be on Welsh universities of this particular review, and I don't think I've learned any more from this. One thing that Augar does say, though, in his review is that there are already differences between the nations' funding systems, so further divergence shouldn't be a problem. One of the areas where there isn't any divergence, as far as I can tell, is that the terms of repayment for student loans, even though the loans themselves are different here, especially in the way that maintenance costs are covered and subsidised—. If there is no divergence at the moment, and whether we agree or not on Augar's particular proposals, one thing he is trying to address is this question of the number of loans that are effectively written off or not paid off in full over time, and I'm just wondering what your current thinking is on this problem—how it can be addressed in a way that doesn't adversely impact upon university income or deter attendance.

Well, the Member asks me what impact the Augar report, if it was to be implemented, would have on the Welsh higher education system. I would refer her to the comments that have been made by Cardiff University, and, indeed, University Wales, as the representative body of HE in our nation, who have issued briefs outlining their concerns at the content of the report, and their concerns about the financial impact of the recommendations are not a surprise, I'm sure, to any of us. Now, given the financial implications for Wales and the other devolved administrations, we have consistently and constantly reminded the UK Government of the potential of those implications or any amendments they decide to implement, and I will continue to do so whilst they are considering their formal response to Augar. 

Right, well, Minister, that's two questions you haven't answered now. I have read the Cardiff University briefing, as you clearly have. I just wanted to know what you thought, and I do want to know what you think about this situation generally regarding unpaid loans, which effectively become Government grants, and what you think Wales could do to improve the situation in a way that doesn't deter attendance at university or compromise their income? And I didn't get an answer to that question. 

Higher education, of course, is a very competitive field, and exam results matter when student offers from universities can be very demanding. The WJEC is by far the biggest exam board relevant to 16-year-olds thinking about the steps they want to take after that, and I wondered if, like me, you're concerned at all to hear about the difficulties there—lack of revision guides, errors in French A-level papers, technical issues with computer science exams. What conversations have you had with the body to reassure yourself that recent problems won't compromise Welsh students' exam chances and so their chances of getting into the university of their choice?

The Member says that she is concerned about people being deterred from pursuing higher education. What we know from the work of Professor Ian Diamond is that it is the lack of support for upfront living costs that is the greatest deterrent to people pursuing a university course, especially if you are a student from a non-traditional background and do not have parents with significant incomes to support you. That's why, even if Augar was to be fully implemented in England, we would have considerably higher levels of non-repayable grants available to Welsh undergraduates.

The Member makes some very pertinent points with regard to the performance of the WJEC. My officials and Qualifications Wales continue to work with the WJEC to demonstrate what our expectations are of a national exam board for our nation.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.

Whilst the consultation on the draft curriculum is ongoing it’s appropriate that we should discuss certain aspects of it with you today, and, first of all, the history of Wales. I’ve just come from a seminar that I staged at the request of Ymgyrch Hanes Cymru—the campaign for Welsh history—and there concerns were expressed that an excellent opportunity will be missed to teach the history of Wales in every school unless that is entirely clear in the new curriculum and unless resources and appropriate training are available.

The young people of Wales learn about events such as the drowning of Tryweryn through murals, and that’s wonderful, but the education system has a key role in teaching the story of our nation to our pupils, a role that isn’t being delivered and hasn’t been over a period of decades—not properly, at least.

The draft curriculum talks in general terms, and conceptual terms, about the Welsh experience, but, when one looks at the guidance under the heading ‘history’, there’s no mention of Wales or the Welsh experience or Welsh history. So, I’d like to know how you intend to amend the draft curriculum in order to reflect the aspiration that every pupil in Wales should know about the history of our own nation.

Well, the Member will be aware that the draft curriculum is available for feedback at this particular time and I'm sure that she, and other people, will be availing themselves of the opportunity to feed in views.

The principle of cynefin, I believe, is one that runs throughout the draft areas of learning and experience, and not confining itself just to the concept of teaching children about Welsh history. I want the story of Wales—its history, its language, its culture, its geography, its contribution to the world—to be a golden thread that runs through every aspect of the curriculum and I don't think we should be confining ourselves just to the humanities AoLE or one particular subject.

It would be interesting to return to this at some future point, perhaps discussing what the definition of 'cynefin' is, because there is no definition in the draft curriculum as it stands, and that is perhaps a weakness.

Another aspect of the new curriculum that’s been given some coverage is sex and relationships education, and I quote from the draft curriculum that teaching,

'Welsh, English, religious education, relationships and sexuality education, and the three cross-curricular responsibilities of literacy, numeracy and digital competence' will all be statutory duties. So, it’s entirely clear that sex and relationships education will be mandatory, which is very good news, as will be religious education and digital competence. But I’m having some difficulty in understanding the rationale of making certain elements of the curriculum mandatory whilst exempting other important elements. There is no mention in the general description that I’ve just quoted of well-being and mental health. This is a surprise to me, bearing in mind the warnings in the ‘Mind over Matter’ report drawn up by the Children, Young People and Education Committee. So, can you explain the rationale as to why certain things are mandatory and others are not in that general description?

Well, can I thank the Member for her personal and, indeed, her party's support for the inclusion of RSE in the curriculum and putting it on a statutory basis? I'm very grateful for that. I think we both understand why that is really important.

You'll be aware that in the original document, 'Successful Futures', by Graham Donaldson, he made some specific recommendations on why some things should be explicit on the face of the Bill. I have added to that RSE in response to the work done by Professor Emma Renold of Cardiff University and the expert group that was created when they were very, very clear about the necessity of putting RSE on the face of the Bill and as a statutory element of the curriculum, given the importance of that subject, and also given the importance that is placed on this subject by young people themselves. We know from the work of the Youth Parliament here that life skills are an important priority for them, and they have been very positive about the inclusion of RSE on the face of the Bill.

The Member asked the question about mental health. Well, she will be very familiar that health and well-being forms one of the six areas of learning and experience within the new curriculum. The inclusion and the focus that has been placed on those topics and that area of learning again is very welcome and puts us in a very different place from other education systems nearby us. I will be reflecting, as a result of the consultation on the White Paper, on how we will, through legislation, be able to make good on my desire to have a broad and balanced curriculum and to ensure that all six AoLEs and the 'what matters' statements that lie beneath them are adequately provided for in individual local school curricula.

Thank you, and of course I welcome the inclusion of well-being and mental health as a core part of the draft curriculum, but I am still slightly concerned as to why it’s not contained within that general statement, which is also at the heart of the curriculum, whilst relationships and sexuality education is there. I’m struggling to understand the rationale for that, whilst welcoming of course that RSE is there. I’m sure you would agree that we do need expertise in teaching in that particular area, and the panel that looked at that has made a number of recommendations, and I’d like an update if possible this afternoon on the issue of training. The panel has called for the inclusion of training in RSE as a particular pathway as part of initial teacher training and professional development, including a Master’s level qualification. So, how much progress has been made in that area? Thank you.

You’re absolutely right to talk about the need to ensure that our professionals in our schools have the confidence to be able to deliver really effective RSE lessons. We know from the work of Emma Renold and consultation with young people that sometimes the staff that are delivering these lessons are not those that have had particular training in these elements of the curriculum. New financial resources were made available specifically to work on training materials and training opportunities for those teachers delivering RSE. And you be will be aware that we’re investing over £21 million over two years with regard to professional learning opportunities for teachers in preparation for the implementation of the curriculum, and I would expect RSE and health and well-being to form an important part of the opportunities that are available. We continue to discuss with our initial teacher education providers the nature of the curriculum offer that they have, and I will write to the Member with regard to a Master's qualification.FootnoteLink

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