6. Plaid Cymru Debate: A confirmatory European Union referendum

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:29 pm on 5 June 2019.

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Photo of Hefin David Hefin David Labour 5:29, 5 June 2019

I don't think Plaid Cymru are full of remainers entirely, either. Yes, I agree. The reason I'm willing to support this motion today, after much thought, is because of that point. We are at an impasse. The only other option to a second vote would be no deal, I think, at this point, and that is why I'm saying we probably do need to support this.

By the way, one thing I'd say about Gareth Bennett—Neil Hamilton's gone and Gareth Bennett's not here—he's promising, in his pitch for the leadership of UKIP, that he will have a referendum in every parliamentary term. God forbid we end up in that position. What's going to be next? Capital punishment? Perhaps we'll have a referendum on that. There's a simple choice for you—there's no unintended consequences there. I think the problem is our democracy is broken. I haven't been a strong advocate of proportional representation in the past and I regret that, because I think the only way we're going to make a way forward in the future and enable us not to need referenda in the future is by having a properly proportional voting system at Westminster and in this Chamber, so that then we don't need referenda. Now, people in Plaid Cymru are nodding. I would also say, if you have that, and if you can command through a proportional system more than 50 per cent of the vote, you can put your core policy forward and ask for that to put forward. So, let's take Welsh independence. We won't need a referendum on Welsh independence if you can command 50 per cent of the Chamber to support it, and then put it forward in a further Assembly or Welsh Parliamentary election. We will never need a referendum ever again, and Llyr said—